By that reckoning, when we go to sleep in our normal unadjusted base state
everyone should always have the same dream, over and over...
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WiL Pantheist Bi Polar Polyamoric Pansexual, Tue 1 May 2012, 22:28,
Reply)
....No?
Because we all have different experiences and ingest different substances each day, and those contribute hugely to the contents of our dreams. Explain to me further about this 'unadjusted base state'.
(, Wed 2 May 2012, 9:04, Reply)
No you're quite right, I see your point, but equally it doesn't change my assertion that we won't have the same trip purely due to being biologically similar
As even if we factor in your point, that ingested substances from food alter the base state (our individual natural settle point when few other factors that could alter our natural chemistry are present), that combined with the point that we all have different experiences and different knowledge should mean we have completely different trips with very few similarities, however, we don't.
What tends to happen is the concept of us being individuals yet all connected at some level gets interpreted by that individuals personal knowledge into a form they can accept as truth, it's an epiphany moment, a 'My God, it's full of stars' type life changing realisation that everything inter connects and the universe and our place within it is circular and timeless and WAY beyond our organic 'one existence then oblivion' existence, and the only reason why we think of time as linear is BECAUSE we are experiencing our own personal organic reality that way, because our bodies have a finite existence on this planet, our bodies are born and then decay, but our consciousness and to some extent our memories, are not all going to disappear without effect when we die, they stick around to alter the whole, both in this physical world, thru memories and physical changes we enacted during our lives, and the bigger timeless one beyond it, dependent upon how often we connected to it and how strongly, which in itself is dependent upon how much pleasure (or pain) we got from our lives.
Religious minded folks will see this as God and the afterlife, often mistakenly seeing themselves as the new messiah seeing as how God obviously chose them alone to know such things, chemically minded folks will see it as opening up their own internal imagination thru altered state, psychologically minded folks as visualisations of the human mind, quantum physics professors as unified theory, techy guys as some form of technical solution to sharing consciousness such as the the global net, aliens among us believers as contacting our lizard faced master race, and so on and so forth, BUT the fundamental threads of how it all works and fits together and our role within it will always stay the same.
My version, being a techy sci fi nerd who knows a bit about quantum physics and doesn't discount the role of chemistry, biology and even religion, is actually pretty open, I can see it as any and all, really, but I like the Nexus/conscious micro/macro-verse hypothesis, connected to us lightly thru our imagination and conscience, more directly but usually not lucidly during sleep, and most strongly thru moments of high emotion such as pain or sex, or chems like acid, am2201, MXE, DMT, mushrooms, and the absolute strongest being sex WITH such chems, as orgasms are another moment when we briefly connect in a higher state and unconsciously become 'read write enabled', rather than write only during the day, and read/write but again not consciously during our sleep! An orgasm connects you and the chem allows you to be conscious of it and then hold onto it, which is fucking mind blowing! Despite my opener of the possibility that our future selves have back-created this wider world sometime in the future or in an alternate reality thru the application of science and technology, I actually prefer the idea that the universe became conscious on a huge macro level long long before we came into being, it isn't beyond possibility and it certainly had the time!
The reason why I like to think the universe becomes interested in our pleasures and particularly our sex lives, btw, is that the only reason for a conscious mind to continue up keep of their own existence is if it gives them pleasure to do so, a person without pleasure in their lives is not living, they are existing, or contemplating suicide, and we, unlike the Nexus or the universe, can take physical pleasure, pain and complex emotions, to extremes, sometimes all at once, which must make quite an imprint in the Nexus, and that has GOT to catch the attention of the universe, who within this hypothesis is a non organic massively ancient sentience existing alone, till we came along anyway, plus it will push the boundaries of what our immediate community will feel is possible in acheiving pleasure, raising the bar, essentially, cheering folks up, like when people say 'I can see a special sparkle in your eye' to someone who recently got laid, subconsciously they're also feeling that persons higher happier state thru the Nexus. Also rings true with game playing, btw, where we learn to get pleasurable rewards from achieving difficult goals, same thing, excites the mind, improves the mood, strengthens our connection to the Nexus, makes us better more likeable and more empathic people. Tho I guess that last part depends upon the game, if you're slaughtering innocent by standers for pleasure, maybe not so much.
Incidentally, inside this hypothesis I'm also postulating lately that the human brain cannot possibly store a lifetimes worth of memories, so must leave some imprint of itself in the Nexus during sleep, and in the daytime-moments of pleasure, pain, orgasm, tripping, and other altered states that touch the Nexus to some degree, and that adults just keep enough in their internal active memory to get by day to day, which would explain A: why the world is so immediate and all memories and imaginings so vibrant and instantly accessible to a child, before it has a huge chemical change, gets cynical and needs to start dumping it's mental load more completely as their teenage years and sexual endeavours begin, and B: why old folks living beyond their useful years and no longer finding any pleasure or complex experiences worth reporting in life seem to get cut off and effectively end up with a closed account, unable to recall their past, yet will buck up and find it again if played music from their younger years that remind them of their past pleasures and past states of consciousness.
Btw, consciousness seems to need a 'key' unique to each individual and unique to that individuals changing state of consciousness to access memories associated with it, so for instance non lucid trips will be forgotten in a waking state, but remembered again when back in there, as are non lucid dreams, but also future 'memories' or long since past ones when they were very different people with a differing base state, such as when very young, also cannot easily be accessed, although a key can be used to unlock them with the right chems and altered conscious state, if you feel like a child then you can recall childish things, but equally it can be unlocked purely by a smell or piece of music that was integral to your life back then and puts you momentarily back in the correct state to unlock that 'upload'. We don't seem to be able to unlock others memories directly, it's like they're password enabled to that individual alone, we can feel them but not directly connect, although I've never as yet tried simply asking permission of someone to try and see if I can, I can imagine if they completely understood what i was asking and said yes, go ahead, have a go, and all conditions were premium, then it's possible that might change.
Must give that one a try!
If we accept all this as a working hypothesis shown merit thru practise giving positive and supportive emperical results, then regardless of how we wish to imagine it, why not choose to live by it? It's no worse nor more harmful or in any way more bizarre than established religious beliefs after all, in fact, there's a lot of cross correlation, and I am trying it out on myself, and trying to rely more on my childlike open mindedness and inherent senses of right and wrong more, and it seems to be making me a much happier, healthier and cleverer person, so as far as I'm concerned, I'm convinced!
Psychological science has long since seen much benefit in visualisations of our own brain's functions to alter or cure people with deep rooted problems such as PTSD, using EMDR for instance, to change the procedural memory, and living your life by some working hypothesis, occasionally adjusted dependent upon observed results or further knowledge, is pretty much the same thing.
Based upon it, I believe that if anyone could have an eidetic memory AND be massively empathic to the point of being able to see themselves as anyone around them, no matter how different to themselves, and you gave that person, say, 2 lucid trips a week, followed by some kind of light dissassociative constantly during their waking state, I think you could essentially get the new messiah, as they would not only be able to have all their lifetimes experiences and knowledge to hand in absolute clarity at all times, but also to some degree everyone else's, and would most likely have an incredibly reliable sense of the whole planet's feelings towards every life changing decision, not to mention what are the right answers for just about any question, so long as it was posed in a fairly simple yes or no answer and they were the kind of person open to all the possibile kinds of personalities out there without bias then they should just get a feeling of the correct direction to go fed from the Nexus, and because they did it in a fully waking conscious state they should also get better at it by remembering each correct decision they made, eventually becoming essentially telepathic, and all knowing!
I would love to try that one n see if it works!
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WiL Pantheist Bi Polar Polyamoric Pansexual, Wed 2 May 2012, 14:47,
Reply)
Thank you for being interested enough to read it and open minded enough to try and understand it,
I enjoyed writing it, I've never yet tried to explain it fully to someone else and it clarified a few things along the way to myself.
I will continue to try it out and see where it gets me. If you feel at all inclined to try it too (I mean the hypothesis, not necessarily the chems!) please let me know how you get along with it!
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WiL Pantheist Bi Polar Polyamoric Pansexual, Wed 2 May 2012, 16:32,
Reply)