Would like some advice...
Here's the situation - a few months ago, I started renting a room in a house. The previous occupant left sharpish, after finding a place much closer to his work. When I arrived, there was a fully fitted internet connection. Trying it out, I was delighted to find it still connected, and decided to squeeze as much use out of it as possible, before the line was cut off.

That was 3 months ago, and it's still active. Haven't heard a peep from the company (Virgin) or the previous occupant. Only problem is, my live-in landlord is getting very nervous about it. He seems to think that if Virgin find out, they could take me to court and have a black mark put on the houses' credit file. It doesn't help that it's on one of their highest packages, about £60 a month if anyone was paying.

Personally, I'm all for leaving it and seeing what happens. If Virgin do find out, I would be perfectly willing to pay any outstanding amount. Of course, the contract isn't in my name, which may create a sticky legal situation.

My landlord claims to have spoken to one of his mates, who is a big-shot lawyer. He apparently said that I could be charged with theft, and that Virgin could easily prove their case. However, I am sceptical - I've caught him lying before, and I suspect he's simply made this up to add credence to his point of view.

So, I'm asking for any B3tans with any legal or technical knowledge to give me a bit of advice. What should I do? Is it safe to leave it and see what happens, or should I 'fess up and get it cancelled? Or is there some third option?

I await your responses with baited breath...
(Pavlov's Frog figures no-one really reads sigs anyway, Fri 19 Oct 2007, 1:58, 10 replies)

Re:Theft
You're not stealing physical property, although you have dishonest intentions, so you can't be done for theft.

You're also not obtaining services by deception or committing fraud since you've not represented that you are the previous occupant.

At least, I think so.
(LickOutTheJamsMotherfuckers!, Fri 19 Oct 2007, 2:14, closed)

Free Virgin Media? Could be a problem...
You could be charged under s.125(1) of the Communications Act 2003 - that's the act they've used to charge people who sneak onto wireless connections where the owner stupidly hasn't changed the SSID, hidden it, and set up passwords etc.

s.125(1)(b) states that you have to do it with the intent of avoiding payment, so I suppose you could argue that, since you would be willing to pay if they asked for the payment, the section is not applicable. But that's so tenuous you might get laughed out of court.

The penalty on summary conviction is maximum 6 months imprisonment, a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both. If on indictment then it would be a maximum of 5 years imprisonment, a fine, or both.

None of this however changes the fact that Virgin Media are tossers who deserve to lose a lot of money, and it is about time we got to screw them as much as they screw us. But that's just my personal opinion.

PS: My usual caveat here - I'm not a qualified solicitor, so if you act on my advice and it all goes tits up, I'll have skipped the country - you have been warned...

PPS: Rachelswipe is a qualified solicitor - do you do pro bono work for B3tards Ms Swipe?
(lawofnations, Fri 19 Oct 2007, 4:04, closed)

Physical property
I'm not sure that there has to be anything physical to steal for there to be some legal problems - even if the letter of the law is limited to medium-sized solid objects, there're other areas of the law that aren't. For example, there could be a claim that you're passing yourself of as someone else dishonestly to claim that to which you know you have no entitlement, and that looks a bit like fraud. (I have in mind here examples of people whose bank accounts have accidentally been credited with thousands of pounds which they have spent, knowing that there was no possible way it was theirs, and who have then been prosecuted.) I think there was something on wi-fi theft on the news not long ago: it might be worth trawling the BBC news site.

I'll also ask a few of my lawyer colleagues here, though, with it being a Friday, the chance of any of them being in the office is slim...
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Fri 19 Oct 2007, 9:29, closed)

Mr Sinister
"My girlfriend stole free internet for a year and nothing happened. Serves people right for not having secure enough connections. Its like leaving your wallet on a table to be rifled through"

Both these are specious. The fact that some people are not chased is not sufficient to indicate that others won't be either. And, while it is foolish to leave your wallet lying around, that won't exculpate others doing anything to it. If I leave my front door open, that's foolish - but it's hardly an invitation for someone to take my stereo.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Fri 19 Oct 2007, 9:50, closed)

OK then...I'm not a lawyer, but I do hate Virgin Media

As earlier replies suggest, It could be a previously signed 12 month contract before the previous tennant jumped ship.

So pardon my ignorance but I think this doesn't make you responsible. Surely you could testify that the previous tennant assured you it was paid for in advance for the next 12 months as a sweetener in the deal? The fact that you have not received any bills backs this up.

Also, more importantly, since the Virgin takeover of NTL, their detection efforts are spread so thin (fact) that you would be desperately unlucky if they run a check signal through your line anytime this or next year. I know because many friends and I have been scamming free tv out of them for about 3 years now - trouble free.

They would rather focus their efforts on ridiculous billing 'mistakes' blagging existing customers (like me) out of as much cash as they possibly can. They don't know about the TV but it doesn't stop them twatting me about for my phone and internet bills with such regularity it is almost as if I am paying for my tv anyway.

For fuck's sake don't call them...about anything. They are cretinous cumsponges who are trained to say whatever it takes to get you off the phone, and to get a fucked up, fabricated bill to your address. If they're not sending anything, count yourself as lucky and leave it that way.

Rachelswipe is a lovely lady and brilliant solicitor, who has advised me before on legal issues and has been fucked about by Virgin Media too, so I'm sure a polite question (and not taking her genorosity for granted) wouldn't go amiss.

Good luck, and thank you for (inadvertantly and accidentally) sticking one up the rusty chuffs of those cuntsticky wankmerchants.

Score 1 for team B3ta!
( Pooflake braces for an onslaught..., Fri 19 Oct 2007, 12:30, closed)

Kill them all
And bury the bodies under the internet.


(disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer)
( Beve The Spaniard broke off his horse's head, Fri 19 Oct 2007, 13:30, closed)

Beve
Clearly you aren't. A lawyer would have said "Kill them all and bury their bodies under the internet, and then charge them for the service."
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Fri 19 Oct 2007, 13:41, closed)

My advice for your baited breath
is to stop eating quite so much bait.
( Rob T Firefly talked, like, William Shatner, on, Sat 20 Oct 2007, 18:57, closed)

Credit file...
As likely as not, the former tenant is still paying for your Internet connection. Maybe he just forget to cancel his account? Or maybe he asked Virgin to cancel / transfer his account, and they just haven't done it because they're useless? His loss is your gain. Enjoy.

Your landlord needn't worry about his credit record. Credit reference agencies *used* to give information about other people living at the same address, but they're not allowed to do that any more.

But that's not likely to win your landlord over. He'll just think you're a know-it-all twunt. Why not try convincing him that, if Virgin ever find out that you've been "cheating" them, they'll just treat it as a sales opportunity?

"Dear soon-to-be-customer.

"We're so glad you've enjoyed this free trial period. Now -- would you like to start paying for it, or do we have to cut you off?"

(For the definitive answers, go to rachelswipe.)
(pitarou, Tue 23 Oct 2007, 1:38, closed)