Only today
a salient example appeared in my inbox on facebook of why it is that (barring an annual indulgence in a bit of MDMA at a certain event) I don't have any time for drugs, massive or otherwise. Specifically weed.

I'm pretty anti the stuff, inasmuch as I think it makes people boring and can do a lot more damage than it's given credit for (perhaps not an appropriate phrase, but you know what I mean.) I smoked a bit at sixth form and in the year before uni, but I grew out of it. Maybe I'm just lucky enough not to have an addictive personality, but I can't see the attraction of getting so monged out you can't talk or move and you lose hours and hours of your life that you could have spent, y'know, having fun or making new friends or something.

There's more to it than that, though. I'm no expert at classification or whatnot but it's always seemed odd that something like ecstasy - which as long as it's pure and you don't act like a bellend with it isn't going to have any long-term effects whatsoever - is supposed to me more risky than a psychoactive than can permanently fuck you up mentally. My younger brother's best friend killed himself at the age of 20 after suffering from cannabis psychosis. Think about that. A young human life sniffed out and a family devastated because of a supposedly harmless drug.

Back to the salient point, though. Got a message on facebook from a lad I was good friends with at school called Paul. He was smart, funny, bright, a really good cricketer and a good friend, if a bit daft. He'd done well in his A levels and went off to Leeds to study politics.

But then Paul got into weed, in a big way. A couple of other boys from our school went there too, and from what they reported he spent most of his first year permanently stoned or one some other substance. Failed his first year and had to resit - no biggie, happens to a lot of people. Paul doesn't learn though, and keeps on smoking - now he's dealing a bit too. He stops going out. His friends drift away, his flatmates end up kicking him out for not paying rent. Paul starts acting a bit strange. He turns up to his old friend's house in the middle of the night, laughing and talking to himself. He accuses another friend of stealing from him. He changes his name by deed poll. The boys from the group really put in a lot of time with him, trying to include him, being patient when he got violent or delusional but after a few years and an incident where he destroyed the kitchen, broke the windows and threatened the mother of his best friend, they more or less washed their hands of him.

He came from a really close-knit family, and understandably this was hell for them too. In the year when he should have graduated he's forced to move back home and work in his dad's garden centre. We think it might be good, a fresh start, nice environment away from bad influences etc, but by then it was too late. He attacked his own father with a knife in front of his young sister and gets arrested, where he's assessed by a psychiatrist and committed, whereupon they discover he's a paranoid schizophrenic.

Paul's been in and out of this institution for six years now. He will never get better. He will very probably never hold down a job, find a partner or live independently. The message he has just sent the few of us who've remained in any kind of touch over the years is to inform us that he is in fact a powerful archangel called Aaron Amadeo who is able to communicate directly with God and the Prince of Darkness. If it wasn't violating his privacy I'd post it verbatim so you could see exactly how sad and frightening it is inside the head of a schizophrenic. This is someone I remember as a happy lad who was really going somewhere in life and is now irreversibly fucked-up because of weed. The worst thing is, he's not even the only person I knew who this has happened to - two boys in my final year of uni were committed (and one of them remains so) to asylums as well, all because of Massive Drugs. Sigh.

And that's why I hate weed.

At any rate, I am an impossibly perfect and superior being who is above such gross mortal indulgences. In fact, I'm so disgusted at the idea of being so pathetically dependent on chemicals to have a good time that I'm off to the pub.

Tara.
(jennymnemonic, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 15:57, 24 replies)

?
Eh? You think he caught paranoid schizophrenia off weed?
( browser still relating boring anecdotes into a void on, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 16:47, closed)

After, therefore because of. That's logic.

( Dr Preference AjcuiVd289, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 16:56, closed)

That's nothing, I once caught cystic fibrosis off a gerbil.

( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 17:02, closed)

!
Sorry Jenny for being rude. I think that cannabis consumption probably makes things worse for people with mental disorders, just as downing bottles of vodka would, or watching the chuckle brothers on loop for a week. But I think there is a very high (pardon the pun) number of people who smoke cannabis and do not go on to attack their parents. In fact the 'MDMA no lasting harm' thing irritates me more because of the number of people I knew in the 90s that necked endless pills, suffered from depression, and couldn't see the link. If you eat so many cream buns you can no longer see your feet, it's time to knock it on the head. And if your smoking weed is making you unhappy them it's time to give that a rest too. But I'm pretty sure paranoid schizophrenics are born that way.
( browser still relating boring anecdotes into a void on, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 17:39, closed)

obviously
the majority of people who smoke weed aren't going to go nuts. It's not certain whether or not there has to be a proclivity there, but it is medically proven that cannabis can trigger psychosis in previously healthy people. And it just ain't worth the risk.
(jennymnemonic, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 17:58, closed)

.
But if its a trigger then there has to be something to 'set off'. If I'm an alcoholic and I eat a trifle with sherry in it, and it triggers an alcoholic episode, then would the trifle be the cause of my alcoholism?
( browser still relating boring anecdotes into a void on, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 19:01, closed)

No, it would be the cause of your trifoholism
You'd be a trifoholic :D
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 19:29, closed)

.
I'd be taken into custardy.
( browser still relating boring anecdotes into a void on, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 19:47, closed)

trigger as in
something to cause the illness in the first place, not as in similar to a strobe light for epilepsy (ie that it stimulates an awakening of an underlying condition.)

I know my post may have been somewhat preachy, but the BMJ is on my side on this one.
(jennymnemonic, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 19:50, closed)

It really isn't that clear cut
unfortunately.


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15763748


Certainly if it was *that* much of a problem, then it would be much easier to show causation.
(ham.sandwich, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 20:36, closed)

Extremely preachy
But losing a close friend like so, I can understand.

I was really into it, but then I saw how much it was hurting the person I loved. That is what I said, but really, I just got annoyed at being given the silent treatment for 2 days.
(lemonadegame, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 23:44, closed)

Define healthy
"The UK Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD) reviewed the evidence in depth and concluded (2002, p. 8) “... no clear causal link [between prevalence of cannabis consumption and schizophrenia] has been demonstrated.”"

That relates to not-already-vulnerable people, however. It's suggested that heavy cannabis use in those with a family history of mental illness can indeed precipitate the onset of psychosis.
(tty, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 20:55, closed)

Also, there are many other factors besides genetics that can influence schizophrenia - not least the behaviour of the people in the sufferer's daily life.
It's such a complex issue that in general you cannot reasonably stand up and say "yes, this person's condition has been caused by [X] and [X] alone."
( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 21:22, closed)

Hmm
I have a cousin who developed schizophrenia after a few years smoking weed. No previous mental illness in his family. Anyway the Royal College of Pyschologists say "Over the past few years, research has strongly suggested that there is a clear link between early cannabis use and later mental health problems in those with a genetic vulnerability - and that there is a particular issue with the use of cannabis by adolescents"
(Smale is stuffed, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 18:56, closed)

Correlation does not equal causation
I.e. still hard to tell whether the heavy cannabis use causes the schizophrenia or whether it's a warning sign that full-blown psychosis is on its way. Still a sad waste either way though.
(littlesunshine licked your blinky diodes on, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 19:14, closed)

This is bollocks
Schizophrenics generally respond to medication, not avoiding weed - although it obviously doesn't help. And I'd counter your "cause and effect" theory with speculation on how much such an illness makes you seek easy relief with illegal herbs or any other substances. If your mate the archangel has been in and out of an institution for 6 years I'd suggest he has issues with the legal drugs.

I'm stoned right now. Have been for the last 10 years, on and off. I have a schizoaffective diagnosis but my first psychotic episode and subsequent hospitalisation was before touching any illegal substances. I was of an age (18-25 for men, slightly older for women), living away from home for the first time and very much into fine wine.. nowadays the medication keeps me on a level; granted to optimise things I should probably give up the dope. But then you're no angel with your freakin' mdma - never had a comedown? Comedowns are very similar to the start of psychosis. As are alcohol hangovers. I know cokeheads, alcoholics and acid freaks who wont touch mdma - the comedown just isn't worth it and can last days, weeks even.

And I have never tried to kill anyone, nor wanted to. From memory the statistic for murders associated with psychosis is slightly higher than the national average, probably because those with violent tendencies are pushed over the edge by the psychosis.
(Mr Big Stuff, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 19:13, closed)

as above
three people i know have real problems with schiz/illness/depression
due to excessive pot smoking... It does fuck you up and the best
thing about the damn drug is it makes you apathetic. A member of my
family topped himself due to it...
So no hard feelings you stoner wasters...
Keep smiling! If you can 15 years from now.
(bangthedrum, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 19:31, closed)

Perhaps
you should cease to rely on anecdotal evidence and have a look at some peer-reviewed studies instead.
(tty, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 20:56, closed)

This!

(ham.sandwich, Sun 19 Sep 2010, 21:32, closed)

Apathetic people woud surely be too "can't be arsed" to kill themselves.

( stuj (^(^;;^)^) GO TEAM SPIDERS!(^(^;;^)^), Sun 19 Sep 2010, 21:31, closed)

I've been smoking dope...
...for longer than a lot of people here have been alive.
I've also had a successful and well-paid career whilst doing it, so...

That said, I DIDN'T start off by being constantly ripped to the tits on skunk from the age of fourteen - which may be a factor involved in the current psychosis 'spike'.

P.s. A pal of mine was into 'E' for a while (something I wouldn't touch). He packed it in when he realised he'd given up listening to his beloved jazz - in favour of dance music (i.e. anything that went, "Um-Chuck, Um-Chuck, Um-Chuck, Um-Chuck" over and over again).
(minimalist ..., Mon 20 Sep 2010, 0:17, closed)

I gave up smoking weed
when I realised I was listening to jazz (ie anything that noodlewanks on with no discernible rhythm) in favour of my beloved dance music.
( wotofco pissing in your swimming pool, Mon 20 Sep 2010, 12:34, closed)

i wonder
How many of those who say weed has no direct relation to mental illness actually smoke it on a regular basis. How do you really know what the consequences might be. Smoke if you want though, it's up to you.
(phe, Mon 20 Sep 2010, 14:45, closed)

Balls to that...
These people obviously had psychological problems which could have been brought out by a bump on the head or a packet of m&ms.
(WOGAN'S WIG FIXER, Mon 20 Sep 2010, 15:57, closed)