that picture of Maddie McCann aged 9
is it just me or does that look like they just took a photo of a 9 year old girl who might be vaguely similar to her?
(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 12:40, 2 replies, latest was 12 years ago)

Noooo they obviously got experts in and did it or something.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 12:45, Reply)

riiiiight
i just saw the continuation of the 'dolescum' discussion up there, its almost like these people are unaware that there are actually conditions put in place to prevent people from claiming benefits fraudulently or because they're lazy.

the whole 'grr everyone on benefits is lazy dolescum' is generally an opinion held by the uneducated, ill-informed and reactionary tabloid reader

bless
(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 12:48, Reply)

Yep, there's a lot of bollocks spouted by pricks on here.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 12:50, Reply)

Yeh like what quinten just said
There's plenty of people in my home town claiming benefits when they are perfectly capable of working and I used to babysit for plenty of people who openly admitted they had anther kid to get a bigger house.
( Peej, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 12:56, Reply)

Some black people steal cars
all black people should be punished.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 12:58, Reply)

A lot of people speed on motorways, every car should be limited to 68mph

(PsychoChomp, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 12:58, Reply)

Some people use guns to commit murder
lets ban guns
( Peej, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 12:59, Reply)

Some people who drink drive crash
lets ban all people from doing it
( Peej, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:00, Reply)

yeah, but all guns ARE the same.
They're guns. Ballistic weapons for killing things. Your argument kind of falls down there, chap.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:01, Reply)

wish i had one right here, right now

( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:03, Reply)

I only use my guns for target practice so one day I can be good enough for the olympics
My point is simply that using that kind of argument is useless because its not relevant. Its similar to all those idiots saying that legalisation of gay marriage will somehow lead to it being legal to marry your dog.
( Peej, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:04, Reply)

you might only "use" it for that
that's not really what it's "for" though.

But you're countering your own argument here, really.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:05, Reply)

My own argument was meant to be sarcastic

( Peej, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:08, Reply)

Even the most aggressive figures about fraud within the benifit system say it's well below 5%
3.4% for JSA, that means 96.6% of people who are claiming their £60ish quid a week are doing it within the rules and are activley trying to find jobs. Don't you think they deserve a bit more respect?
(PsychoChomp, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:03, Reply)

If I really believed that 96% of people were genuinely actively seeking work and not half heartedly applying for a few a week to keep their dole
Then yes I would think they deserve a little more respect. But I don't believe that 96% of people claiming benefits are actively seeking work. I know a lot of young people claiming benefit and a lot of them will do what they can to stay on it. The minority actually want a job. Admittedly that's just my own experience based on the area I live in and the people I know but I doubt its much different everywhere else.
( Peej, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:07, Reply)

There's no point arguing against your own experience with facts is there?

(PsychoChomp, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:15, Reply)

I don't believe they are facts.
because they don't take in to account that people can appear to be looking for work whilst not really trying
( Peej, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:22, Reply)

also you are relying on the statistics that are being provided by the very people who are signing on
is that reliable? i have no idea.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:24, Reply)

Indeed
Statistics are never reliable.
( Peej, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:26, Reply)

77% of them are made up on the spot
and the remaining 42% get massaged
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:29, Reply)

Unless..
..you can provide at least five photos of jobseekers reading a copy of Viz hidden inside the job paper then I'm not going to take into account the fact that you're spack-handed mong-slobberer.
( Reginald Donkeyfuck, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:30, Reply)

i often wonder how much people's opinions would change if their circumstances changed - ie how much of it is genuine political belief and how much is self-interest
eg the more high earning you are, the more chance you'll be quite right wing about all this sort of stuff. so i worked from 8am til 11pm yesterday. today will be post-midnight. meanwhile a lot of my own family up north, never mind their friends etc, have been unemployed and signing on since they left school. do i really feel like working my arse off to "protect the country's citizens"? yes if they need it. NO if they are lying in bed posting on fb about going shopping.

but if i earned peanuts and wanted a salary boost to feed my kids, or if i lost my job and couldn't find another, would i still feel like that?

ditto the woolly liberals. if they suddenly got a job that took their income and thus their working hours from a £25k job to a £125k job, as there is no such thing as a free lunch, would their outlook change accordingly?

the only exception i know of personally is my ex, who earns about £200k a year, and is actively in favour of the 50% income tax rate and wants to see IHT rise to 90%. and even then i have to wonder if he would genuinely continue to feel that way if his parents suddenly had a lot of cash to leave him.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:20, Reply)

I wouldn't want to see inheritance tax raised.
Two parents working their entire life to provide for their children want to leave something after they're gone only for all but a fraction of it to be taken by the Government. You're fucking with a basic driving force of humanity, there.

I'm with him on the income tax, though. I would be if I were on his money, too. With the proviso that the visibility of where it gets spent needs to be approved. Too much of it goes to waste.
( Kroney, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:27, Reply)

he blames it for the world's problems, meaning that money stays in the hands of the same few
if it were returned to the government on death to be redistributed, it would be fair.

lovely in theory. in practice, people are by nature acquisitive and they want to leave things to their kids.

this is ALWAYS the problem with tax. it's not what you have to pay. it's what they spunk it on.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:30, Reply)

What he's proposing to fix it though
is to take away *everybody's* ability to give their relations a boost. Nobody would be happy with that, nobody would vote for it and it'd be political suicide to propose it in Parliament.

Indeed. The fact is that no one job is truly more valuable in real terms than another, society would be entirely fucked without binmen, it's just that money doesn't work like that. If what you happen to be good at earns you lots of money, it doesn't make that job inherently more worthwhile to society than say, nursing. There those that earn money have a greater responsibility on them to help those struggling than those on lower incomes.
( Kroney, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:35, Reply)

Do you know anything about inheritance tax?
Google at what point it kicks in.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:36, Reply)

£325 grand.
So with the sale of a house, cars, contents of bank accounts etc, it's not actually that high a threshold. It applies to an estate, not a cash sum. All possessions.
( Kroney, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:39, Reply)

which is PRECISELY my point
if your parents have less than that to leave, surprise surprise, you are much more likely to be all for IHT. would you still feel like that if your parents had worked hard to leave you, say, £2,000,000 and suddenly the government wanted to take £1,800,000 of it? and ditto, you are much more likely to be in favour of clinging onto your family money if you actually have any!

this is why i think a lot of people's politics is about self-interest.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:40, Reply)

Per individual, £650,000 for a married couple/civil partner. Then you're only taxed after that.
So you can get about 3 houses at the uk average price inherited before you pay any tax. Then you pay 40% on the 4th and 5th houses you get given for free.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:41, Reply)

So say a married couple own their assets together, as most people do.
One person dies. The other person doesn't pay inheritance tax because they hold their assets as joint owners.

For the 650k threshold to apply, they'd have to die together. Or am I wrong, here?
( Kroney, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:45, Reply)

You're wrong
married partners don't pay any of the tax, and their £350k allowance is passed over to the surviving member.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:46, Reply)

Fair enough.
House prices currently being what they are though, even 650k is still well within middle class territory. My parents own two houses, one of which they rent out. Combined they own half a million pounds-worth of property and they are not unusual in this country.
( Kroney, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:48, Reply)

Even if they owned £1million worth of assets
they would only be taxed 14% which is less than VAT, and all costs of sale etc are tax deductable so it would be less.

It's really not an unreasonable tax, it's just sold as one by the very rich.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:52, Reply)

We're not talking about the current rate of IHT though
We're talking about her gay ex-boyfriend's proposal of 90%
( Kroney, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:54, Reply)

I'm pretty fucking sure it isn't unless you are extremely clever about how you hold your assets
but I'm willing to be proved wrong, here.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 14:00, Reply)

www.hmrc.gov.uk/inheritancetax/intro/transfer-threshold.htm
(PsychoChomp, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 14:08, Reply)

fair enough.
There always used to be massive restrictions on this, I didn't realise the rules had changed. Useful info, cheers.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 14:16, Reply)

depends how they hold the estate

( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:47, Reply)

In reality anyone into those figures will have taken advantage of IHT tapering relief and the estate will pay fuck all

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:45, Reply)

correct
you stitch it up with a complex series of trusts and you can avoid paying most of it.

the people who oppose this kind of tactic are generally the people who don't have much to inherit OR don't have kids to leave it to, imho. but am happy to be proven wrong.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:46, Reply)

SOWHYISEVERYONEARGUING!!!!!!

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:48, Reply)

And yet for some reason big media owners and tory politicians
have decided that this is AN OUTRAGE and managed to get the public to think it's a totally unreasonable DEATH TAX
(PsychoChomp, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:47, Reply)

I don't get that, the fundamentals of IHT haven't changed in some time
I'm morally aghast for no reason
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:51, Reply)

there's a rarity factor to ability/intelligence that gets recognised
that's why the ex earns what he does, because so few people can do that job.

low income support is great. no income support? not without good reason.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:39, Reply)

He has a point. sadly so does Kroney.
People would just give it as a gift during their life or find a way around it. Well, the ritch ones would anyway.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:43, Reply)

find someone who is in line to inherit anything
who thinks it's a good idea to have a high IHT band.

i would bet you a LOT that the very same people preaching about the evils of being tory right now would change their tune pretty fucking sharpish if their parents won the lottery tonight.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:50, Reply)

You are absolutely right.
There are very few people who'd stand by their morality after a sudden change in fortune and those who do would be those that believed in moderate taxing from the start.
( Kroney, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:53, Reply)

Maybe, hard to tell really
neither you nor I are good candidates to ask, you being a well off Tory and myself a no-so-well-off Lefty. Anyway, individual anecdote don't count for much, do they?
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:55, Reply)

there are plenty of measures in place
there are also plenty of people who circumvent them. both these statements are true.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:01, Reply)

It looks like they just took a picture of another girl and crudely photoshopped in the eyes, cheeks and mouth from the other picture

( Peej, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 12:46, Reply)

is it your daughter?
cos if so i'd like to fuck her as well, add me to the waiting list
(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 12:49, Reply)

My daughter says she doesn't fuck ugly cunts

( Peej, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 12:54, Reply)

that is some sick burn there.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 12:57, Reply)

On the plus side
It means I'm not an ugly cunt.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:09, Reply)

No accounting for taste really

( Peej, Wed 25 Apr 2012, 13:10, Reply)