Ignore code change
We've fiddled with the ignore code on B3ta so that it works both ways. If you ignore a person they can't see your posts, as well as you can't see theirs.

This means - in theory - if you have someone you find persistently annoying (say they post horrid things on your answers to the QOTW) then ignore them once, and they'll stop seeing your posts so they can't post and ruin your stories.

If you can test this amongst yourselves and report back to this thread that would be really helpful.
( rob Hello, I'm a board sig., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:40, Reply)

*ignores*
/s
( cr3, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:42, Reply)

You fakkin cunt horse HOOR!
Can you see this xxx
(Bill Paxton IT'S GAME OVER MAN!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:46, Reply)

fuck off ape
can you see dis lol xx
( K Swizz all my bells are ringing, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:47, Reply)

No
*cries*
(Bill Paxton IT'S GAME OVER MAN!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:50, Reply)

there, there

( K Swizz all my bells are ringing, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:51, Reply)

Where?

(Bill Paxton IT'S GAME OVER MAN!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:53, Reply)

On the stair

(Bill Paxton IT'S GAME OVER MAN!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:53, Reply)

Right there

(Bill Paxton IT'S GAME OVER MAN!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:54, Reply)

*ignores*

( K Swizz all my bells are ringing, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:57, Reply)

What makes an oat rolled? Is it like a bogey?

(Bill Paxton IT'S GAME OVER MAN!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:47, Reply)

If I ignore me can I not see my posts as well as mine?

( Dr. Shambolic Minister for Sport for Papua New Guinea, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:47, Reply)

HERE S HOPING

(Bill Paxton IT'S GAME OVER MAN!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:50, Reply)

This is a bit disappointing.
I can still see a bunch of people who I hoped had put me on ignore.
( Dr. Shambolic Minister for Sport for Papua New Guinea, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:18, Reply)

Ian Thorpe is really camp

(Bill Paxton IT'S GAME OVER MAN!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:55, Reply)

Wait, how will we know if it's worked?

(Bill Paxton IT'S GAME OVER MAN!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 19:56, Reply)

Because Chompy and Swipe
Will both end up starting new threads every few hours.
( JeffTheDogFucker JeffStock III - Now in the calendar, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:02, Reply)

I think this might be in breach of my civil rights

( Windy Pig is a stupid cunt., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:03, Reply)

but in all seriousness,
i'm not sure this is a good idea Rob.
There are those that click ignore over the slightest things, and some of the highest comedy comes in bizarre subthreads. It would be a shame to miss a great pun thread because some mincing nancy has put me on ignore for not believing they had sex with a honda accord.
( Windy Pig is a stupid cunt., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:05, Reply)

I'm still convinced clicking the ignore button should just highlight your post pink with a I'M TAKING IT ALL TOO SERIOUSLY marqueeing around the outside
could solve a lot of issues
( glued eel /questions/questionsyoudliketoask/post1648081, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:17, Reply)

i endorse this

( Windy Pig is a stupid cunt., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:26, Reply)

This is a good plan.

( Battered I was Agent Orange, Special Agent Orange, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:27, Reply)

glued eel for president

( Dr. Shambolic Minister for Sport for Papua New Guinea, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:19, Reply)

Absolutely!

(Stonkwood Pipes made me do it, Fri 3 Aug 2012, 15:03, Reply)

will this work on /board?

( prodigy69 broke b3ta and made everyone leave, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:08, Reply)

in theory it's for the whole site
other than the FP - but it's not really tested fully yet
( rob Hello, I'm a board sig., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:13, Reply)

cool :)
cheers
( prodigy69 broke b3ta and made everyone leave, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:16, Reply)

also,
explain me something, if i log out, the top 2 threads in /ot don't show up. whats that about?
( Windy Pig is a stupid cunt., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:10, Reply)

Bug - fixed - thank you!

( cr3, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:35, Reply)

What if they put the mods on ignore?

(PR1CKBOT IS ONLINE, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:11, Reply)

chaos.

( Windy Pig is a stupid cunt., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:12, Reply)

We should all ignore everyone
then sit here wondering why it's all shit and no-one's posting.
( b3th You're gonna need a bigger mod, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:12, Reply)

How would that be any different to now?

( Dr. Shambolic Minister for Sport for Papua New Guinea, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:20, Reply)

this is a terrible idea and I hope you feel bad for having it

( glued eel /questions/questionsyoudliketoask/post1648081, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:12, Reply)

So then how can you see what they may be saying about you? Say If they were mentioning your real name or something? You wouldn't be able to see it they had you on ignore.

( Battered I was Agent Orange, Special Agent Orange, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:19, Reply)

How would they know? Surely only your friends know your real name?

(Bill Paxton IT'S GAME OVER MAN!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:23, Reply)

OR YOUR ENEMIES

( glued eel /questions/questionsyoudliketoask/post1648081, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:24, Reply)

Your enemies are all of the fat

(Bill Paxton IT'S GAME OVER MAN!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:25, Reply)

Unfortunately not. As I found it last night...

( Battered I was Agent Orange, Special Agent Orange, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:26, Reply)

quite a lot of us know each other's real names through facebook.
For example, I know chompy's real name, even though I wouldn't class him as a real friend.
Saying that, I'm not enough of a cunt to spread around the internet
( b3th You're gonna need a bigger mod, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:27, Reply)

everybody knows chompy is really Samuel B. Fay

( glued eel /questions/questionsyoudliketoask/post1648081, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:32, Reply)

But there are big enough cunts around here it would seem.

(Misery McUglywife a thin-skinned troll., Thu 2 Aug 2012, 7:31, Reply)

then you can't see the mean things they're saying about you

( K Swizz all my bells are ringing, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:27, Reply)

That's my point. Alright K?

( Battered I was Agent Orange, Special Agent Orange, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:30, Reply)

SO DON'T SEE THEM, OKAY

( K Swizz all my bells are ringing, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:36, Reply)

But others can. That's my point. How do would you know if someone was postng stuff you'd rather wasn't there?
EDIT: about you, personal info etc.
( Battered I was Agent Orange, Special Agent Orange, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:39, Reply)

lobotomy

( K Swizz all my bells are ringing, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:42, Reply)

mods always step in when that happens, whether you've seen it or not
so, if you're not on, and I say you live on 122 knob st, they'll delete it before someone can do anything with it
( K Swizz all my bells are ringing, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:46, Reply)

OT isn't modded. I experienced this exact issue last night, if the person had me on ignore I wouldn't have seen it.

( Battered I was Agent Orange, Special Agent Orange, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:50, Reply)

Why would you want to hide your real name?

( mns is... STARWARS McGUINNESS, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:52, Reply)

WHY it's the fabulous Milknosugar

( K Swizz all my bells are ringing, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:53, Reply)

Well hello there honey!

( mns is... STARWARS McGUINNESS, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:54, Reply)

I've never put anyone on ignore, I'm too scared I'll miss a good flounce :(

( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:23, Reply)

Turns out I have little lord Fauntleroy on ignore
I don't remember doing it though
(Bill Paxton IT'S GAME OVER MAN!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:24, Reply)

I think I've got quite a few on ignore from my /board days.
Don't think I've extended it to here though.
( b3th You're gonna need a bigger mod, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:28, Reply)

Because he laughed at the cock gazzes you kept sending him

( hartley hare is shaking his Caxirola on, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:32, Reply)

i'm putting you all on ignore so i can slag you off behind your backs
pricks
(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:28, Reply)

What you need my son is...
A MTFU button
( hartley hare is shaking his Caxirola on, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:33, Reply)

But, I love everyone, why would I ignore them?
Except Janet, I hope she has me on ignore.
( Edenmonster, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:29, Reply)

SHUT UP.

( janet aylia living la vida loony, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:36, Reply)

Damn!

( Edenmonster, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:44, Reply)

So, if i put everyone on ignore, I cease to exist?

(DOZERTRON! Baseball!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:29, Reply)

Hopefully.

( Battered I was Agent Orange, Special Agent Orange, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:31, Reply)

Internet bullying, right there!

( b3th You're gonna need a bigger mod, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:32, Reply)

Yay!

( Battered I was Agent Orange, Special Agent Orange, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:32, Reply)

+ its a plane, boss

( hartley hare is shaking his Caxirola on, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:34, Reply)

nearly as bad as Swipe.

(DOZERTRON! Baseball!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:37, Reply)

i hate you all
pricks
(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:45, Reply)

Would it be better
to have ignore set up so that the ignore switch resets after a week/fortnight/month/year? It may give an element of control to the abused, and give the abuser a chance to redeem themselves.
( social hand grenade Get cape, wear cape, fall off horse, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:48, Reply)

is Q right?
can i post in a thread i'm ignored in from a log out?
( Windy Pig is a stupid cunt., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:49, Reply)

yep,
Thread is gone when i'm logged in, log out, post a reply, and there it is.
( Windy Pig is a stupid cunt., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:50, Reply)

you can steal see them using search too
pretty sure the mods here are even worse than they get credit for
(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:52, Reply)

i dunno q,
they're experimenting, give them some time to figure out the bugs.
I'm just sad that rob felt the need to ignore me.
( Windy Pig is a stupid cunt., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:53, Reply)

hush petal, he's probably just testing too

(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:54, Reply)

i hope you're right q,

( Windy Pig is a stupid cunt., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:55, Reply)

On the bright side if they have you on ignore
They can't step you can they?
( hartley hare is shaking his Caxirola on, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:56, Reply)

yay, i've been unignored by purveyor of racism, rob manuel!

(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:59, Reply)

me too Q,
it's a lovely feeling.
( Windy Pig is a stupid cunt., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:00, Reply)

i feel like i've finally made it

(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:00, Reply)

i hope we helped the research.

( Windy Pig is a stupid cunt., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:03, Reply)

i hope rob ignores himself, and loses control of the site completely and even internet locksmith cr3 will be like 'no way man, that thing's like leaving the keys inside fort knox, we're screwed'

(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:07, Reply)

Does that mean you've taken me off ignore then, you ginger spastic?
Also, this is a really stupid idea.
( BraynDedd Chinny McChinchin, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:55, Reply)

it is like they're deliberately ruining the site
first by adding too many thinly spread boards, then by listening and pandering to the whingers every whim with the closing of QOTWs and double-blind ignoring
(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 20:57, Reply)

It's almost as though they haven't a fucking clue what they're doing.

( BraynDedd Chinny McChinchin, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:00, Reply)

I'm gonna set up shitloads of new accounts, wait until the noob plates are off,
then ignore myself from different angles.

That'll fuggin learn me.
( Infidel the biggest liar in Canada, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:02, Reply)

I've got you on ignore already.

( BraynDedd Chinny McChinchin, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:05, Reply)

Good, I was about to ignore myself anyway
Everyone wins.
( Infidel the biggest liar in Canada, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:09, Reply)

We should all ignore ourselves,
then the entire site will explode.
( BraynDedd Chinny McChinchin, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:18, Reply)

It'd totally be like a big ignore blackhole man, that'd be way cool.

( Infidel the biggest liar in Canada, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:21, Reply)

why not just institute a word filter that changes all negative words to happy cheery ones?
so this sentence would become: "why yes just institute a word filter that changes all positive words to happy cheery ones?

that way people would be forced into posting positive feedback no matter what excreble dross they were confronted with
( cumquat may because you're mine, I walk the lino, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:07, Reply)

there's already a swear filter in your profile

(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:09, Reply)

Why doesn't everyone just man the fuck up and stop getting upset at some pixels on a screen that they can easily turn off and go and do something productive?

( BraynDedd Chinny McChinchin, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:10, Reply)

Yeah?
Well you smell of wee.
( Dr. Shambolic Minister for Sport for Papua New Guinea, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:49, Reply)

I like this idea very much.
Or do I?
( Infidel the biggest liar in Canada, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:12, Reply)

I'm not sure it's a great idea TBH
If you log out you can see if someone has posted who is ignoring you. Then when you log back in I assume you would still be able to gaz them? I'd rather people I'm ignoring don't know I'm ignoring them. I'm saying that from the point of view of someone who has spent the day getting some really unpleasant abuse by a nutter on /links who I eventually put on ignore. I wouldn't want to give him any more ammunition towards me.
( t0ria inevitable, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:20, Reply)

Right, putting being an internet wanker aside for a minute, this really isn't the best idea.
Say someone has me on ignore for no reason other than I once posted something disagreeing with/mocking them slightly, then they start a thread that has a brilliant subthread. I would then miss out on said subthread purely because someone else can't take criticism/a joke. It's just going to become another thing that is ruining the site, like the reply function in /qotw turned that into a hive of bitching and upset.
( BraynDedd Chinny McChinchin, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:22, Reply)

Awww. Blub blub blub.
When was the last time anything approaching an amusing subthread ever happened here ever like ever ever? Prick.
( Dr. Shambolic Minister for Sport for Papua New Guinea, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:50, Reply)

If I had 'Ken' Oaf on pricknore
I would have missed his funny little tantrum and then where would we be?
(DOZERTRON! Baseball!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:54, Reply)

If you were that desperate couldn't you just log out or use a different browser or sutin?

( Dr. Shambolic Minister for Sport for Papua New Guinea, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:58, Reply)

oh man, I'm addicted to trolling.
You fucking cripple.
(DOZERTRON! Baseball!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 22:02, Reply)

Oh man. I can't believe you'd tease me about my inconveniently massive cock and balls.

( Dr. Shambolic Minister for Sport for Papua New Guinea, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 22:04, Reply)

THAT'S IT, I'M PUTTING YOU ON IGNORE, YOU HORRIBLE BULLY.

( BraynDedd Chinny McChinchin, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 22:34, Reply)

Who said that?

( Davros' Granddad Monty, could you grow up and have a life? Kthxbai., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:45, Reply)

Couldn't you just have just banned the persistent whingers rather than give in to them?

( Gvpyczjppcl but it degenerates into the usual mindless twaddle, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:56, Reply)

Yeah!
Ban Gvpyczjppcl!
( Dr. Shambolic Minister for Sport for Papua New Guinea, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 21:58, Reply)

Interesting
given we are now going to have the final word in any thread, just before we put someone on ignore
( Jahled Kitab al-Azif, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 22:20, Reply)

This will promote abuse rather than harmony....

( rachelswipe if you logged out to read this, you're a twat, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 23:13, Reply)

for our mutual benefit, you're on ignore.

(DOZERTRON! Baseball!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 23:32, Reply)

I love you really

( rachelswipe if you logged out to read this, you're a twat, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 23:36, Reply)

I can't see any of your bullying comments.

(DOZERTRON! Baseball!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 23:44, Reply)

I've never put anyone on ignore, and never will. I like the banter, even when I'm taking the internet too seriously/am a shut-in/have never fucked a woman/am bringing up another man's children/have misunderstood the nature of a 'comedy' website/am a tedious white knight/am a spastic shitcunt/have Autism/am a prick/puppydog/shed/GOTEAMGB/whatever...

But I think, in general, it'll tidy up QOTW a bit. Let those who want to bicker, bicker - and those who don't can just opt out and live a life of Matrix-like fluffy pretense.

All, in all, and not that it matters one little bit, I approve. Might be strengthened with an IP log, though - stop people logging into multiple accounts from the same IP within a certain period of time. Obviously, relatively easy to thwart, but will stop the casual, non-technical cunt from simply logging into a comedy account to continue making their hilariously cutting and salient jibes.
( Happy Phantom wrote on the sole of his slipper with a biro, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 23:50, Reply)

Prick.

( Dr. Shambolic Minister for Sport for Papua New Guinea, Thu 2 Aug 2012, 6:47, Reply)

you're on ignore

(DOZERTRON! Baseball!, Thu 2 Aug 2012, 7:04, Reply)

ah, forgot that particular classic, will ninja it in
( Happy Phantom wrote on the sole of his slipper with a biro, Thu 2 Aug 2012, 10:38, Reply)

I'm not convinced this is a good idea.
I do realise the puerile trolling has been an issue - I say grow a thicker skin or find the door.

A couple of "Geoffrey Robertson's" to highlight some issues.

If I had Rob on ignore then surely there's a good chance I wouldn't have received this post and thus wouldn't be writing this reply and I imagine a few people couldn't read the post cause I had replied to it - even tho I wouldn't be replying because I wouldn't have been able to see it in the first place...
Tautological much?

The other query is this - atm when say... Shambo gets in a huff with me cause I've replied to 1 of his posts or replies he deletes the whole thread and then frequently re-opens the thread, thus removing everyone else's carefully thought, poignant arguments.
Won't that be the case from the outset with this plan? Why should everyone else miss out on a good thread just because I've pointed out to a type-writer bashing monkey what an idiotic argument they're making.

My solution is as a couple of others have suggested - remove the reply function from qotw and make OT the battle ground for the replies. That way if Rory wants to slander my employment choice he has to ref. the link in OT and I can choose to respond to him rather than having to deal with it in my own thread.
(Misery McUglywife a thin-skinned troll., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 23:52, Reply)

Fffuuuuuu....
I agree with BD.
Fuck!
(Misery McUglywife a thin-skinned troll., Wed 1 Aug 2012, 23:56, Reply)

Yeah, sorry about that.
Turns out rob being a bellend unifies folk, though.
( BraynDedd Chinny McChinchin, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 23:58, Reply)

The Legless effect.

(DOZERTRON! Baseball!, Wed 1 Aug 2012, 23:58, Reply)

I think you should all gaz him and ask why he keeps sickipedia going if he's not a racist.

( BraynDedd Chinny McChinchin, Thu 2 Aug 2012, 0:00, Reply)

can I include a picture of my cock as well?

(DOZERTRON! Baseball!, Thu 2 Aug 2012, 0:01, Reply)

You should write the message on your cock and send that.

( BraynDedd Chinny McChinchin, Thu 2 Aug 2012, 0:06, Reply)

Ahh, the Lorena Bobbitt effect.

(Misery McUglywife a thin-skinned troll., Thu 2 Aug 2012, 0:09, Reply)

Happy Candles there Sunshine.

(Misery McUglywife a thin-skinned troll., Thu 2 Aug 2012, 0:01, Reply)

I've been here for just over quarter of my life.
For fuck's sake.
( BraynDedd Chinny McChinchin, Thu 2 Aug 2012, 0:02, Reply)

Jeez, you're a dumb cunt
for a 25 yo. hipster.
(Misery McUglywife a thin-skinned troll., Thu 2 Aug 2012, 0:05, Reply)

Got to have a schtick.

( BraynDedd Chinny McChinchin, Thu 2 Aug 2012, 0:05, Reply)

Meh.
1 tenth of my life down the internet's shitter.
EDIT: I'm sorry for calling you a dumb cunt - that was rude. Plz don't put me on ignore etc...
(Misery McUglywife a thin-skinned troll., Thu 2 Aug 2012, 0:23, Reply)

& now I'm on side with Battered as well?!
FFS!
Fucking polarising topic is polarising.
(Misery McUglywife a thin-skinned troll., Thu 2 Aug 2012, 7:29, Reply)

So your plan to combat the already large amounts of dupe accounts that exist and will surely increase with this action, is?

(Misery McUglywife a thin-skinned troll., Thu 2 Aug 2012, 7:35, Reply)

Finally, the Aussie gets it, 12 hours later.

(DOZERTRON! Baseball!, Thu 2 Aug 2012, 7:53, Reply)

i don't think he understands no one reads old threads on /ot.
Poor qftw refugee.
( Windy Pig is a stupid cunt., Thu 2 Aug 2012, 7:57, Reply)

he is a thicko shitwiper, cut him some slack.

(DOZERTRON! Baseball!, Thu 2 Aug 2012, 8:04, Reply)

You need to talk to Rory about my employment situation.
Don't know how that works for you "2" but just don't shout too loud in the same room as you'll wake the neighbours.
(Misery McUglywife a thin-skinned troll., Thu 2 Aug 2012, 12:56, Reply)

Yet here you are...

(Misery McUglywife a thin-skinned troll., Thu 2 Aug 2012, 8:29, Reply)

Or he may have been at work. Also, reading & posting on a website isn't the focus of his entire waking moments.

(Misery McUglywife a thin-skinned troll., Thu 2 Aug 2012, 8:16, Reply)

+n

(DOZERTRON! Baseball!, Thu 2 Aug 2012, 8:29, Reply)

EXCELLENT IDEA

(PsychoChomp I want to more creative in a buisness kinda way., Thu 2 Aug 2012, 9:46, Reply)

I heartily endorse this.

( WormuIus, Fri 3 Aug 2012, 8:50, Reply)