been doing stints as
a volunteer advisor at the citizen's advice bureau on and off for a few months now. As part of the training in addition to dealing with benefits, homelessness, consumer rights and immigration we also spend a fair amount of time with debt. Which includes getting a plastic bag of bills plonked on the desk which we have to sort in order of priority and list up a plan of action for the client.

Of all the options and scenarios with clients in serious debt the option of going to a loan firm (those happy clappy ones with the pastel coloured adverts on daytime TV with the smiley actors) never came up. Ever. There is no debt that cannot be negotiated down first without recoursing to lumping them all together and paying off an even bigger sum over a longer time.

also prioritise bills , negotiating your council tax first (prison offence).

Baliffs working for debt agencies have nowhere near the amount of powers they claim. they operate and are successful by relying on your fear and ignorance of the law.

Negiotiate under every circumstance with the agencies you owe your debts . We even have a special password with councils when we operate on behalf of a client we use to get serious debts paid off for as little as £3.25 per week - but you need to come in to see us for us to do it for you. Courts look more favourably on you if you sincerely seek remedy to clear your debts. And most times it can be negotiated -they are only humans on the other end of the phone after all (most times). Charm works wonders.

Learn the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 word for word, parrot fashion to quote to shop managers . You may feel like Raymond from Rain Man as you do it, but you will save yourself a fortune in replaceing faulty/ not fit for purpose goods.(I noticed one shop assistant last christmas telling customers they only had 1 month to return the item as he was handing them their receipt - bollocks they do) . Also if they say they can only replace teh faulty item if you still have the till receipt, proof of purchase can also be your card statement. So bollocks to that too.

The CAB is independant, free, confidential, a registered charity and every one in there is working for nowt, not a sausage (apart from senior management and certain specialist legal advisors). They do it for no pay because they genuinely care. A rare group of individuals from all walks of life, whom I consider it a privilege to work along side - they will bend over backwards to work on your behalf. - use it, support it - it's there for you (and they are always looking for volunteers)

and most importantly we have a social policy aspect which puts the breaks on legislation that most of the public aren't even aware of. You have no idea how much draconian shit would be passed if this thin line was not here to hold back the tide and challenge it.

Things I give advice on outside of my role within the CAB (obviously), just to confirm (for the trolls), the information now following is stuff I do not advise clients on within my role within the CAB and it has no connection with it :

TV licence - you are not obliged to answer any questions or confirm your name or address to the inspector - politely and respectfully close the door on them - they can do fuck all to make you pay this ridiculous tax (and if you're into papier mache or have a kitty litter tray which needs lining why not recycle and put their endless dickless threat letters to good use?)
EDIT: Youtube: How to deal with the TV Licence Inspector, filmed encounter By Kroaky

this goes for anyone who is claiming authority over you who asks you your name - simply ask "am I obliged to answer you" - if they say yes - ask them to tell you under what law. Then read off the definition of an 'act' and 'statute'. Which includes you needing to give consent for the act to be used on you.(you do this unknowingly by giving your name btw - the name on your birth certificate- as the registration process of your birth certificate created the legal joiner between you and your 'person'(corporation). The legal instrument they use to convince you statutes have power over you - understaning this makes all the difference -EDIT: link as a short intro for the curious (specifically the section from 1 min 31 seconds to 3 min 50 seconds) and this (specifically the bit at 4 min 55 seconds) - if you want to get really serious buy a legal dictionary (Blacks 5th) and get into the actual definitions of the language they are using against you. Legalease isn't english. Do not assume those words mean what you think they mean. Inigo Montoya had a point.

As a caveat to this however...if you have caused harm or loss to another human being you are lawfully obliged to cooperate with a peace officer and you get all you deserve as far as I'm concerned

UK Census 2011 - likewise, no communication = no fine for non compliance, they can do fuck all. do not fall for the intimidation. it relies on your ignorance of the law and fear. If you want to safe guard your privacy and ID have nothing to do with this kind of bollocks. There are no reassurances any company can give to keep your intimate personal details safe from leaks, hackers or just plain ineptitude (leaving the memory stick on the frigging tube).

water bills - even if you don't pay they cannot cut you off - it's a basic human right

When a private debt collection agency 'buys' the debt from the bank it has then cleared the debt. It is now a third party private company trying to recoup the money it bought your debt for. This alone should be a big enough clue -

EDIT - Bills of Exchange Act 1882: You are not lawfully bound to pay anything which is unsigned www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/45-46/61 debt collectors buy debts in some estimates for less than 10p in the pound, after the bank writes the debt off. Under the Bills of Exchange Act 1882, the debt agency is actually paying off the debt when they buy it. They then trick you into creating a new contract with them by asking how much you could pay. When you agree (i.e as little as £1 per week)- they now have a contract with you, where none existed.
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 21:01, 11 replies)

I like this
Good work
( emvee cruor deo cruoris, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 21:19, closed)

This should win
Just because it's really good advice. Thanks.


BTW - My 2 favourite words in the english language "Statute' and "Barred"
(MadBouncyDog Barking at the moon since, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 21:32, closed)

Ha Ha!
Yes, indeedy!
(SpangoTheWonderBadger is brewing beer, Wed 16 Nov 2011, 11:11, closed)

"...This alone should be a big enough clue"
Are you suggesting that ones "contract" with the original lender would now be seen as ended once another company buys the debt from them.
And that as one never agreed in writing to pay the new holder of the debt, it's void?

Or do I require a bigger clue?
(maceie, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 21:44, closed)

blimey!
a member for 6 years, 7 months and has only posted 1 message on the links board , 3 stories and 6 replies on question of the week

one of which you wasted on me. A fact that has not gone unappreciated. I put my best suit on to type this.
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 23:16, closed)

err yeah.
I always forget to sign in and then can't remember the password.
I've got LastPass now, so it does it for me :)
Nice suit though.
(maceie, Wed 16 Nov 2011, 19:09, closed)

So who pays these taxes and debts
when you and your advisees don't? If your answer is nobody then what are the consequences for us all?
( edjogs Collared doves are shit., Tue 15 Nov 2011, 22:04, closed)

the only time I mentioned tax is
when I describe how i regard the tv licence. (Which I regard as a tax on the easily intimidated)

but to answer your question I think when people stop paying their taxes and debts all life as we know it on this planet will come to an abrupt end. The sun will no longer supply energy to sustain life as it has been for millions of years, all aboriginal people will forget how to survive and we in the "civilised" world, of course, will all die a painful and miserable death. The very fabric of reality will unravel at the edges. And all branches of Tescos will shut forcing humanity to starve.

edit:The privately owned central banks who create this bogus debt sustain all that is worthy in life and should be worshipped as gods for this reason alone
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 22:21, closed)

It appears to me that your role as you proudly outline it
is largely to help people avoid their responsibilities. A responsibility avoided becomes an extra burden on those who decide not to opt out. Should we all opt out and precipitate the Armageddon you describe above or shall I carry on contributing to "fundthebigspenders.com?
( edjogs Collared doves are shit., Tue 15 Nov 2011, 22:32, closed)

yes you're right!
that's exactly what I'm saying! Right I'm off to kill a prostitute. cheerio :)
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 22:34, closed)

Well at least I'm not paying for what you do.
or am I?
( edjogs Collared doves are shit., Tue 15 Nov 2011, 22:38, closed)

do you have a hammer I could borrow
per chance? I left my last one embedded in that last tarts skull
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 22:40, closed)

If this is some sort of in joke
I'm afraid I'm not, nor would ever want to be, in on it.
What you haven't told me is who should take responsibility for those who consciously decide to be irresponsible and why.
Over to you.
( edjogs Collared doves are shit., Tue 15 Nov 2011, 22:42, closed)

I could probably get by
with this adjustable jaw spanner to be honest
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 22:47, closed)

Such a pity, your lead post looked as if
you may have something useful to contribute.
( edjogs Collared doves are shit., Tue 15 Nov 2011, 22:49, closed)

really? pot luck I'm afraid
It's amazing what word structures you can produce when you randomly hit the keyboard with your fists

cheerio ducky :)
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 22:52, closed)

I hope, for the good of us all, your "stint" is over

( edjogs Collared doves are shit., Tue 15 Nov 2011, 23:00, closed)

look, I dont want you to take tihs the wrong way
me being a happily married heterosexual man n'all ...but there's something about you could tempt a chap to swap teams. Jus' sayin' is all
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 23:03, closed)

But you said goodbye at 22.34 and again since so I know you're a tease.
Admit it, you have trouble saying goodbye (let alone answering a perfectly reasonable question.) I'm off to bed now, and unlike you I mean it, so you have several hours to concoct a devastating reply. Hint: Do not use any of your previous replies as a model.
Goodnight, nice chattin'.
( edjogs Collared doves are shit., Tue 15 Nov 2011, 23:16, closed)

I got 2 one way tickets to Cuba on the 12.30 flight from Gatwick
a suitcase and half a bottle of sambuca. Do not let me down
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 23:20, closed)

Is that what you said to the guy ramming your wife @ the swingers club that you weren't jealous of.
Oh no, not you.
(Misery McUglywife an attention seeking sociopathic fuckstain., Tue 15 Nov 2011, 23:49, closed)

I have no idea?
I was getting a push on the slide at the other end of the playground at the time. If you want to be the 'Lucky Pierre' you only have to ask you know. Fulfil the promise of that user name of yours.
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 23:52, closed)

Careful now, he'll start gazzing you if you get shirty.
It's quicker and easier just to agree or say nothing.
( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 23:30, closed)

it's all true!
never let the truth get in the way of a good story I say!
... and remember the Tate/LaBianca murders they pinned on Charlie Manson back in '69... jus sayin'
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 23:36, closed)

Two plus two equals five!

( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 23:38, closed)

Great post
*enclickens*
(mr-lizard Hell's teeth man!, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 22:25, closed)

You seem to run off the rails, a bit, once you move past CAB sanctioned advice.
The TV licence isn't a "ridiculous tax", and what's wrong with the Census? Surely knowing the make up of the country is rather important, if it's to be governed effectively?

And, just to clarify, I didn't kill Inigo Montoya's father.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 22:53, closed)

not so fast
I'm still gonna need to count those fingers sweetheart
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 22:54, closed)

Tentacles only, I'm afraid.
*rapes Japanese schoolgirl*
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Wed 16 Nov 2011, 19:07, closed)

With you there on the tv licence and the census.
What's wrong with them?
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Tue 15 Nov 2011, 23:44, closed)

I KNEW that about the census...bloody housemate wouldn't shut up until we filled it in.
This is the best post yet, useful advise I will defiantly use. click.
(shezam slouching towards nirvana., Tue 15 Nov 2011, 23:12, closed)

haha
housemates make very good fertiliser for the tomato patch. Jus sayin ;)
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Tue 15 Nov 2011, 23:17, closed)

I *really* like this
I've heard a few of these before, but never put so clearly, concisely and firmly.

OK, there may be arguments to be had about debt, and people should perhaps be more responsible and forward-planning, but it seems a bit rich (no pun intended) to expect that of ordinary, poor, perhaps uneducated people, when bankers, CEOs and multinational corporations don't (a) pay what they owe and (b) seem able to plan ahead with any intelligence or success whatsoever.

Thanks for the tips
(eccentrica, Wed 16 Nov 2011, 0:28, closed)

regarding your last point
are you implying that in an instance such as this you are not obliged to repay the third party private company, that they cannot legally enforce it?

(I would really like to know!)
(TheManWithThePlan cussed your mum on, Wed 16 Nov 2011, 11:38, closed)

stiuck in an edit at the very end
regarding Bill of Exchange 1882
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Wed 16 Nov 2011, 13:21, closed)

thanks
very interesting. so unless you sign a new contract with the 3rd party debt collection company (which you don't have to do) you don't have to pay them a thing? that could be useful to know some day.
(TheManWithThePlan cussed your mum on, Wed 16 Nov 2011, 13:36, closed)

Doubts
We can tell from as the registration process of your birth certificate created the legal joiner between you and your 'person'(corporation) that you're peddling nonsensical crap from the Freeman on the Land tax evasion and general woo-woo movement. So why the hell should we trust anything you tell us about anything else?
(ubergeekian, Wed 16 Nov 2011, 12:32, closed)

you shouldn't is the short answer
I would humbly suggest using your own brain and your ability to think for yourself to research this stuff would be a better tactic than placing your blind trust in dickheads like me on the internet (or anyone else) I would have thought?

although I'm pretty sure, my motives are not to screw as much labour and money out of you as possible during your prime years until you are discarded without a pension, I can't vouch for anyone elses motives though .

So if you've got any anger why not use it against the groups visibly using some laws to exploit and deceive you rather than the groups sincerely trying to unravel the deception to free you? at the very worst the freemen movement are a group of well meaning numpties where as I'm pretty sure the privatly owned central banks that are running this turkey farm do not have your best interests at heart . just my opinion
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Wed 16 Nov 2011, 13:20, closed)

Can I use my anger
against people who peddle rubbish like the person-as-corporation or bills of exchange rubbish you've been spouting to gullible people who may well find themselves in a huge amount of trouble as a result?

Trolling people's lives is not big or clever.
(ubergeekian, Wed 16 Nov 2011, 18:36, closed)

Fortunately
it appears that the OP doesn't advise his clients on the freemen stuff. Thankfully, because he'd be getting a lot of very vulnerable people into serious trouble.

Ninja edit: Peace officers? Lol, and indeed, wut!
( multijoy, Wed 16 Nov 2011, 19:35, closed)

now you've lost me
"- you've been spouting to gullible people who may well find themselves in a huge amount of trouble as a result?"

who are these gullible people I have been talking to? and what trouble have they got themselves into because of me again? you seem to be more aware of these aspects of my life more than I am , which is impressive (and a tad over judgemental calling them gullible who ever 'they' are meant to be?)

Edit: ah I see what you mean. You think I'm 'peddling the freeman stuff' (which you're calling it(more assumptions)) with clients within the CAB. Ah, in that case calm down, have a nice cup of tea and reread my initial post and in particular the bit where i point out (twice) that I do no such thing.

here's the Quote from my opening post - this line appears smack bang in the middle in case you missed it through the red angry mist you've got yourself into - it's also ironic I point out I have to say it twice for the benefit of the trolls (im not calling you a troll btw):
"Things I give advice on outside of my role within the CAB (obviously), just to confirm (for the trolls), the information now following is stuff I do not advise clients on within my role within the CAB and it has no connection with it :"

I think if you actually read what it is I've written rather than assuming, you'd be alot less angry. If encouraging people to question and to challenge authority and to look into the details of the law to seek remedy and to exert their rights angers you, perhaps you best move to North Korea or China.
( Clay hopes this bit is long enough to promote my websi, Wed 16 Nov 2011, 19:47, closed)

Clay
You are my hero. I would like to erect (fnarr) a statue of you. Please send a recent pic. I'm not even joking.
(rampants, Thu 17 Nov 2011, 10:25, closed)