Help!!!! Nurse in distress
District nurse had pulled up outside our lab to attend a care home this morning. She was duly ticketed by the Yellow Striped bastards.
Care home worker came out to explain it wasa an emergency. The bastard shrugged and walked off.

Can anyone message me the old report about exceptions to the parking laws. Something about missing T bars.

Thank you.
(bugboybeast, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 10:24, 27 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

Try
www.parkingticket.co.uk/au.html
( Peej, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 10:31, Reply)

A quick rundown
A single yellow line must be (normally) 100mm wide and terminated at both ends with a "T" bar that extends 100mm out on both sides of the bar.

A double yellow is similar, i.e. lines are 100mm wide with 100mm gap between them. the termination is slightly different. in that only 1 100mm bar extends of the end towards the pavement

The important thing to note is that the road traffic act states clearly and repeatedly the "no variation is permitted" to its specified measurements.

Get a tape measure or ruler. make sure the line is terminated. If it is, make sure it is evenly terminated i.e. 100mm both sides (I have had tickes cancelled because it was 90mm one side and 110mm on the other.

Also, where a single yellow line is not part of a controlled parking zone, there must be a sign giving details of time restrictions on every LAMPPOST for the length of the line.

Less than 30% of the lines in my town are valid. If you take a photo of the lines termination at both ends and send it to me I can advise you better.
( RadG Drinking Mojitos in the sun, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 10:58, Reply)

It bears saying
what a prick!

Ticketing a nurse on an emergency - scumbag!
(bazmorningstar efil4nat3b, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 11:04, Reply)

what's the dealio
with loading bays?

I almost got ticketed (fortunately I charmed the attractive lady warden) but I had been parked in a loading bay for 2 minutes, while loading and unloading!

do they not apply to general public?
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 11:22, Reply)

here ya go
These are the govt regulations.

www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm#sch6

A bit of a read but this info will be enough to invalidate most parking tickets, on yellow lines, in bays etc as very few road markings are laid accurately enough to conform with the law. Thats what happens when councils give road marking contracts to the lowest bidder.

This link takes you straight to yellow lines.

www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113ba.gif

Note the dimensions given, I got them wrong above. Also note the wording, "permitted variants : none". This means if the pikey road markers are off even by a few millimetres from the permitted dimensions in laying the line or bay etc then the line/bay/marking is invalid.

Do not even bother sending photos to them. Just tell them the line is invalid. It is up to them to investagate.
( RadG Drinking Mojitos in the sun, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 11:32, Reply)

Did a google of old b3ta posts and found this
www.b3ta.com/questions/councilcunts/post86085

I've not tried to find the 'original "Magic words" post' referred to in the post.
( mistaspakkaman and the inedible shifting caterpillars, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 11:57, Reply)

Council cunts :)
That was me .. yay

the link to the original is

www.b3ta.com/questions/jobsworths/post31486

I sent the guy who posted this a nice expensive bottle of whiskey, his post enabled me to get over 5k back off my theiving council :)


And don't forget. If you can show that a line is invalid you can claim a refund of your ticket if you have already paid. Some of the ones I had refunded were over 5 years old.
( RadG Drinking Mojitos in the sun, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 11:59, Reply)

Yep, it's..
The rule of "no variants".

I've only ever paid for one ticket, and that was 'cos it was bloody miles away from where I lived at the time and the bastards wanted to take it to court, which meant me having to travel about 300 miles, so for the sake of the 30 quid I paid it.

...but other than that, trust me. It works.

I'm working on something about speeding tickets too, as the 'ticket' says you *have* to tell them who was driving.

...but what if that person was you? You have a right not to incriminate yourself, and a forced self-incrimination cannot be used in criminal procecution (to stop confessions being beaten out of you) but if you don't you will be fined. Catch-22, and certainly not legal, IMO.
(dchurch bah, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 12:06, Reply)

@RadG
You sir deserve a knighthood.

When I'm running the country, I'll see you get one.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Thu 21 Aug 2008, 12:14, Reply)

The thing...
...about speeding is, thousands of people are 'caught' every day.

If thousands of people are willing to risk criminal prosecution every day, then the law must be wrong and proper, more fitting speed limits should be put in place.

Thousands of people cannot be wrong, and the government right?

I didn't know about it being tested already, although I have no idea why it has anything to do with ECHR act. It's purely a breach of section 4 (6?) of the criminal prosecution act that. It says that you have the right to not incriminate yourself. If this is to be ignored for 'minor' criminal offences then it means as a motorist you have less rights than a baby fucker or terrorist - and that cannot be right in anyone's mind.

Also, about the parking tickets; yeah, I can see how a fine would be a deterrent, but traffic wardens (or whatever they call them now) are there to ensure the flow of traffic - nicking people down a side road where there is little chance of them holding up traffic flow is just a money spinner. There are also lots of box junctions in the wrong place.

I can across one in Reading the other week, where you couldn't actually see what was around the corner of the box, so you just had to risk driving into the box in the hope that you could exit it. Right around the corner from it - justout of sight - was a pedestrian controlled crossing. This box, of course, had a camera pointed at it. Short of being able to see through buildings there was no way to know if you could enter the box and continue to move until you came out of it.

Wrong, so very wrong.
(dchurch bah, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 12:22, Reply)

Parking tickets & GATSOs
I agree with Al - don't speed and you'll never be bothered by speed cameras.

The issue which puts the frighteners on me is that the whole concept of law - "Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" has been rewritten for speed cameras and traffic wardens.

The system is geared to make it difficult and imposing for people to protest, so most folk just cough up. That smacks of rank unfairness to me, it's not up to some traffic warden being paid by the ticket or a road camera ticketing someone for nosing into a boxed junction - in once recent case because they were letting a bendy bus out - because it's so bloody arbitrary.

My fears that this simple rewrite of something so utterly sacred would be the thin end of the edge seem well founded, even the BBC published a short film interview showing serving police officers admitting they were going for the "soft targets" in order to meet their arrest quotas. That'll be the bloke caught eating an apple in his car in a traffic jam then, which is in turn recorded as a crime statistic and in turn waved at the electorate under the banner "More crimes being solved" when the serious ones aren't.

Anyway, enough of a rant from me... If you can beat the system at it's own game then please do so and keep at it until the system starts playing fair once again. Or we get the opportunity to vote a new system in its place.

*and breathe*
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Thu 21 Aug 2008, 12:26, Reply)

@ dchurch
The fact that there are 30mph and 20mph limits in built up areas are being ignored, whats the point of increasing them because people don't bother keeping to them?

The limits are there to slow people down, not to cause aggrevation.
(Ethelred is watching cheese grow, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 12:27, Reply)

Thousands of people wrong and the government right is wrong you say?
*calls Ku Klux Klan* Hey guys how many members do you have? Only 8000.. well that's probably still enough... 4 million people in 1924 you say? And the government decided that even though you outnumbered them you were still wrong to hold such views? Shocking.

Extreme example yes - but just because loads of people break the speed limit and the law doesn't mean it should be changed without careful consideration of how it is likely to effect accident rates, any areas where pedestrians are etc. etc. etc. Tis there for a reason go live in Germany if you want to speed around on the autobahn.
( TGB checking Off Topic is still shit at, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 12:29, Reply)

I'm not so sure
they are there to slow people down.

For instance, there is a road just outside our village - it is a natiol speed limit road (60 mph) - there are no houses and no side roads. It quite obviously is, and should be a 60 mph road.

They are in the process of changing the signs as we speak to make this a 40mph road and are installing cameras.

There have never been any accidents along this road - at least none in the last 25 years (which is as far back as I could find records for).

So what is the justification in lowering the speed limit. As far as I can foresee, this will just agrivate people 'stuck' behind people doing 40mph and more-than-likely make them overtake through frustration.

Forcing people onto the wrong side of the road cannot be a good thing surely?

As to benefit fraud - it's a pin-prick in the scheme of things. It's lower than it ever has been (according to govt. reports and contrary to the Daily Mail) and there are certainly a lot less fraud cases than there are speeding cases.
(dchurch bah, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 12:32, Reply)

Yep
There has to have been three serious accidents along the stretch of road before a GATSO is put up - however, the GATSO on the M4 was put up despite the third "serious" accident on that particular stretch being an attempted suicide by jumping.

Make no mistake, the law is being bent to the very limit by the lawmakers too, more often than not in the name of making a quick buck.

Yes there are other issues, but the whole GATSO thing was the very start of what has turned into massive, state sponsored invasion of privacy. I did something about it and joined Privacy International and No2ID. While our law makers are being underhand and sneaky, I wouldn't trust them to arbitrate at an under 12's netball match let alone pass fair and clear legislation.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Thu 21 Aug 2008, 12:35, Reply)

@geordie
I'm more than upset about the miriad of laws throwing away our rights than the speeding/parking issue.

This is one where we can fight back against rights being hurled out the window.

A few:

right to silence
right to peaceful protest
right to peaceful assembly
freedom of movement

There's hundreds of rights that have gone awol in the last 10 years alone, and a lot of them have gone with public support.

People think, "ok, he was speeding" his rights should be revoked. Or, even "he was a kiddy fiddler, his rights should be revoked".

Now, those are extremes, but the point about rights is that everyone is entitled to them.

In this little debate, rights are being ignored in the name of "thousands of people speed and therefore we should ignore one or two of their rights" and yet, in the second instance, their rights (what's left of them) would be intact.

About the motorist in theUK being Cunts, I think you'll find it's one of (if not THE) safest place to drive in Europe. You are four times more likely to die in a road crash in France for instance. Yet the figure (in real terms) of deaths on our roads hasn't dropped significantly since 1992. So clearly imposing studidly low speed limits has very little effect.
(dchurch bah, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 12:40, Reply)

@Al
No, it's part of the same problem. The authorities published guidelines as to where, when and if a speed camera is sited in an attempt to allay public fears.

And then the authorities chose to ignore large tracts of their own guidelines - or at least bend the rules heavily.

*edit*

In response to dchurch, we have been manipulated royally - ie we've allowed public opinion to be swayed by righteous indignation and when our government makes a popularist move to - for example - cut CO2 emissions under the banner of "those who emit, pay taxes - SAVE THE PLANET!" we have the ultimate in guilt tax. 250% markup on the unit cost of a litre of petrol, is that ethical? Or even representative of it's damage to the environment?

I few weeks ago I said on here that the current bastard child of right-wing Thatcherist reform and left-wing social engineering has sired something worryingly similar to National Socialism. Go read your history books about life in Italy & Germany in the 1930s and you'll notice some stark similarities with Britain today.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Thu 21 Aug 2008, 12:41, Reply)

One of the best things about living in a rural area
Is a massive lack of GATSOs.

On the other hand, I swear they pay men in tractors to drive around at about 25mph, everywhere, instead.
( Cawl, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 12:44, Reply)

@AI
You have hit the nail on the head. Green taxes? Get everyone on side and actually welcoming new taxes.

Before I go off on a huge rant, it seems that Hitler's dream of a European socialist super-state is closer to becoming a reality now, than it was when he was alive. The only difference is that the left-wing part of his ideas (such as the Volkswagen) are being ignored in favour of huge business.

Before someone quotes Godwin's law, do you not think that just because comparisons can be drawn they shouldn't be talked about? This is a very nice thing for governments actually implementing laws that eradicate social rights - stop people talking about it on the largest (largely unpoliced) communications network by implementing 'godwin's law'? Seems, nice and conveinent.

It's a sort of facist-communist super state (or will be if it carries on at this rate).

EDIT: sorry for getting so very off-topic.
(dchurch bah, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 12:49, Reply)

Agreed
We have laws that take unnecessary liberties with our privacy. I believe that the covenant of trust between government and people is irreversibly broken in Britain. Get Gordon out in 18 months and the next lot will be exactly the fucking same no matter what colour their election rosettes.

What's needed now is a genuine alternative - highly unlikely given that

A) The EU stipulates that anti-EU political parties have no place in the EU Parliament

B) Voter apathy has reached the level where people just don't care anymore. Think about how many people are more passionate about whether England win than who spends the average £14,000 in taxes that the Treasury collects from each of us every year (all taxes that is - 47% of our individual GDP)
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Thu 21 Aug 2008, 12:55, Reply)

That's
the frightening thing. I too have heard "it's all bollox mate" in an attempt to placate me or they just nod while crying into their pint about it.

The thing about change of government is (and you are quite right, it will make no difference) that it was the Tories that started it before this shower of stazi's got in with the Criminal Justice bill - try walking to a rave if a copper sees you. Yep, they can arrest you for walking to a rave if they suspect that's where you are headed (restricted freedom of movement). Then of course, as the rave has 'music with a repetitive beat' (doesn't Mozart?) then they can shut it down there and then.

Thank you Mr. Howard. I think this lot saw what we would put up with and accellerated the process.

Run schools down, yet make the exams easier year on year so it looks (on paper at least) like they are working. Educated people are the people they can do without - look at Pol Pot, if you wore glasses it was deemed that you were intelligent and therefore a threat so you were excecuted. Hundreds of years ago? No, just last century. Think it won't happen here - look what they do to 'hackers' - extradited in the face of extradition laws after being held without charge for God knows how long. Just because they are more subtle doesn't make them better, in fact it makes them all the more frightening.

Public houses and clubs are slowly being destroyed - you don't want gatherings of people talking, now that would be a bad thing. Best to shut down anywhere that people might congregate. Social clubs and sporting clubs were the first on the list.

Making local councils a second police force - great, we pay to be spied on. Bins will (and have) had covert cameras in them to see what people throw away, without their knowledge.

Incredible. Hitler would be laughing with glee.

People are also under the mistaken idea that the NHS is there for us - it's paid for by us, sure, but try getting fixed up if you no longer work (retired) - you no longer pay into the pool, you only take out a fraction of what you put in, so it's best that you are not fixed, in favour of someone who can continue to pay back in. Nice. It's for this reason that they don't want Private health care for all - only those that have the money, and they are the people they want. The rest of us will be 'topped up' just enough to keep us working.

/rant.
(dchurch bah, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 13:12, Reply)

(thank you) x 27
Nice one people.

I copied relevant bits and left a letter for the nurse at the care home (she'd left by the time I got out at dinner.)

I will let you know how it went if she gets back to me.

TOGETHER WE CAN CHANGE THE WORLD (Or at least not get ripped off by council twunts)

Thank you, thank you, thank you............
(bugboybeast, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 13:58, Reply)

Although I don't think the nurse should have got a ticket,
I do get pissed off by people who park illegally and then get all shitty when they get a ticket.
I've never had a parking ticket. Why not? I've never parked illegally. It's not rocket science.
( Mrs Entity is in hiding., Thu 21 Aug 2008, 16:25, Reply)

I used to work with a guy
lets call him tosser (for that was his name)

He ended up in court for dangerous driving. He deemed someone was tailgating him on a roundabout so he slammed his brakes on actually believing the old "if they drive in to the back of you its their fault" line. He got out called the police and then was shocked when he received a letter informing him that he was going to be charged for dangerous driving. He spent the next couple of months going around spouting off about how the police were picking on him because he drove a GTi and that they thought he was a boy racer and how it would never stand up in court. My goodness he was hard done by.

Of course the Judge found him guilty of dangerous driving.

The marble of the story is....

Don't fucking slam your brakes on just cos you don't like being tailgated you twat. Whats the worst that will happen if someone tailgates you? Well they may crash in to the back of me. Well what the fuck is likely to happen if you slam your brakes on you fucking twat!
( Peej, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 16:36, Reply)

It's not always
that easy.

Where I live I have to park on double yellow lines. There is simply nowhere else to park.

Well...that's not entirely true. There is a carpark right opposite, but there are no resident tickets. I would have to pay.....£1.90 for 30 mins!

That's over 90 quid a day if I leave my car there. That just isn't feasable, so I (and many, many others) park illegally.

Thankfully, the line is broken and there is no t-bar on the end, so when and if we do get nicked (and we do), then we all get out of it, every time.

The road with the double yellows on it, really has no business having double yellows there - it's a quiet side road, with a club (rbl) a pub and a few houses in it.

Used to be single yellow for part of it until a couple of years ago, when some bright spark decided money could be made by making the whole lot double yellow.
(dchurch bah, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 17:22, Reply)

I've been there.
I've driven round for half an hour in tears trying to find somewhere to park when I lived in Brighton.
( Mrs Entity is in hiding., Thu 21 Aug 2008, 17:28, Reply)

I used to
think it was just people moaning about nothing - "you can always find somewhere to park" I used to think.

That was before I moved here.

If they actually put lines where they were needed in order to keep traffic flow and other obvious places like outside doctor's and such like, I think traffic wardens wouldn't be quite so universally hated.
(dchurch bah, Thu 21 Aug 2008, 17:38, Reply)