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This is a question The EU

Why not have a question about the EU referendum? asks Spanishfly. Rather than something you have done or experienced. Let's hear how you think leaving the EU will affect you.

(, Mon 27 Jun 2016, 13:44)
Pages: Popular, 2, 1

This question is now closed.

I'm British, but I live in Belgium and have done for 20 years. I decided to move to Belgium because I liked the idea of being on the continent, of being closer to the heart of Europe, of my children growing up bilingual, of having friends, neighbours and colleagues with open, European views. And I was looking forward to better cheese, bread, beer, chocolates, etc.

All of these things have come to pass. Because of freedom of movement I and my wife had no problem getting jobs, renting and then buying a house, etc. Because of reciprocal benefits arrangements I can get child benefit, health insurance, social security, etc. without any issues. My wife even managed to get a job working for the Belgian government, because a couple of years ago they chose to open up even these protected positions to EU nationals. My kids have had the choice of university in whatever EU country the want, and have been able to fulfill their personal dreams of playing sport at national level for Belgium, joining the Belgian Air Cadets as a precursor to joining the RAF, etc. All because of being part of the EU.

Now the background to pretty much all the decisions I've made in the last 20 years or so, related to employment, family, my personal finances, etc., has changed. I couldn't vote in the referendum because I've been out of the UK for more than 15 years, and the Leave decision means that most of the things I wanted out of moving to Belgium are threatened. My kids are multilingual, but without freedom of movement for Brits within the EU they won't have the same opportunities for studying, working and living in whatever country they would like. My & my wife's ability to keep working here under the same conditions is not clear at all, as we don't know what position the UK government will be able to negotiate (or even what they want to negotiate).

I believe strongly in the idea of the EU. I think all EU countries benefit because of the single market. The free movement of goods, services, capital and resources makes sense, indeed is probably a requirement, to make the single market work efficiently. Given the transnational nature of the majority of threats to Britain (terrorism, environment, cyber & other crime, financial issues, coping with migration, etc.) it makes sense to me that closer integration with our trading partners and neighbours is essential to respond to those threats. And when you look at the laws which the UK enacts based on EU law, the vast majority of these are either implementing international agreements (such as climate change agreements) or are related to making free trade work efficiently (common standards for products and services, common rules for business and consumer protection, etc.) or based on a shared belief in e.g. employment protection, equal opportunities, etc. So for all the talk of losing sovereignty, I have yet to hear which of these laws would be repealed once Britain leaves the EU.

I prefer Belgium to Britain today. For that reason, and to ensure that I and my family can continue to benefit from being in the EU, we have all applied for Belgian citizenship, so we will soon hold dual nationality. Of course Britain will still be a great nation after all the untangling is complete, but it will be a lesser nation than it could have been, and this decision will also have reduced the potential of the rest of the EU, and probably global growth. I'm shocked, sickened and worried by the way the campaigns were conducted, by the outcome, and by the political mess the country's in. I don't recognise the Britain that I used to live in, or even the Britain that I visited just a few months ago.

Sorry, was this supposed to be a funny story? I guess if I'd thought about it I could have made a tortured analogy to the Trade Federation in Star Wars but to be honest I can't be arsed.
(, Tue 28 Jun 2016, 15:18, 45 replies)
(^(^;;^)^) KEEP THE CURDS AND WHEY COMING. OR ELSE. (^(^;;^)^)
(^(^;;^)^) GO TEAM SPIDERS!
(, Thu 30 Jun 2016, 21:38, 4 replies)
I don't like this question. I want a new vote on a completely different question.

(, Mon 27 Jun 2016, 13:58, 4 replies)
I work in France and live in the UK and really, really wanted remain
But they lost and and it will make very little difference, despite all the whining about the sky falling in. Laws haven't changed, passports still work and contracts are still valid. My guesses for what happens next:

1) Nothing. We never invoke article 50
2) The same as before. We invoke article 50 and agree to the exact same terms
3) We get an extra spesh "associate member status" which is basically the same as we always had

What matters now is stability and that will come in the next few weeks as everyone calms the fuck down. There won't be second referendums or MPs voting against the people because that will cause a constitutional crisis. You don't get to re-run elections just because your party didn't win, so why think you've got the right to overule 17 million people just because you think you are smarter. No-one on the Remain team claimed it was invalid last week when they thought they would win. Grow up, democracy is a bitch sometimes, they all lied and we knew it when we voted. I don't have the MP I voted for either. Leave don't have a plan because they aren't the government, they just campaigned to leave the EU, not what should happen next. We need to wait and see what the government plan next, not Boris (unless he become PM)

As for people making comments about not letting old people vote because they won't be the ones suffering and don't have long to live - why stop there, why not ban the terminally ill too? If you had wanted remain to win, perhaps the 64% of you youngsters who didn't vote should have bothered eh? Just because the pound has dropped doesn't mean it won't come back. If house prices drop, great news. Try thinking of ways to benefit, not lose out. This kind of disruption happens in tech all the time and is considered good, so why complain when it happens now? It creates opportunities if you look for them.

Rant over.
(, Mon 27 Jun 2016, 15:29, 21 replies)
I want my future back.
One week ago I was filled with hope, this has been dashed from my hands. I work for a company that does a great deal of business with Europe. The nature of my business and its global structure mean that I am one of the lucky few who wont be redundant immediately.

I am a scientist. I studied at universities where my research projects graduate and postgraduate, were supported by EU grant funding. Because of this many of my colleagues were from other EU countries. In turn in my professional life is filled with EU citizens who are using their years of education to help build the innovative technologies that are then exported around the world. In turn my British scientist friends are scattered throughout the EU and EEA. working at CERN, the European Space Agency and countless businesses.

At work I hear the nervous chatter of people who have built up lives, marriages and careers over decades of life in Britain having it all taken away from them. Dozens of PhD's in well paid positions waiting for the dangling sword of Farageclese to fall.

I have struggled to get here, having had years of underemployment and unemployment. Last week my company was advertising vacancies, now our share price is falling, a victim of being a British business in Britain where jingoistic fantasy trumps economic reality. This frightens me.

In the lab, the labeling on the chemicals I handle is set by European directive. It was a Europe that was determined to protect its workers from harmful chemicals and pollutants that keeps me safe in my job. Its the pan-European stance on the environment that won't allow a country to destroy its air and water in the name of profit.

But its not just me, that's the point. It's about friends, family and thinking beyond oneself that is the anti-thesis of a vote against the wishes of those who will live with the repercussions for the rest of their lives. It is my family whose work in archeology was paid for as part of an EU drive to preserve our nations heritage. It my friends and family whose work in construction is threatened by economic collapse. It is my family living in areas receiving hundreds of millions of EU development money on infrastructure. It is my friends who are in the process of building lives across the continent. Its those I know and love in the public sector, struggling along after a decade of cuts and pay freezes. Its the elderly on a fixed income facing rising food an fuel bills as the pound is hammered down.

I want my future back, its not just about me and my concerns. I am fighting to remain, and I'll go down swinging. That's how its affected me most. Because I'm doing everything I can and urging everyone I know to do the same.
(, Mon 27 Jun 2016, 21:01, 4 replies)
That nice Mr Johnson is going to put an extra £350m into the NHS, every week.
I ought to be quids in!
(, Mon 27 Jun 2016, 14:21, 2 replies)
er dunno
its too soon to tell what will change , but i liked being part of something , something that didnt really take the money side over other stuff , eu regulations kind of stopped companies fucking up the beaches , made them clean the stuff being pumped into the air , made respecting the workforce - especially temps and part timers and pregnant women a good thing , if you qualified you could go to any university you wanted , work in any job anywhere you wanted , live where you wanted , if you got sick on that stag do in amsterdam you could get fixed . nationality was becoming something anyone could choose , not just rich actors , why should i remain english/french/polish etc if i dont want to be just because of an accident of birth? and now it seems all that will go and ill be left in england being english and thats all i or my children will ever have , unless we get stupidly rich and can then afford to choose what we do...... i know , i live in cloud cuckoo land , but i liked it there. there are cuckoosand i like cuckoos.
(, Sat 2 Jul 2016, 18:46, Reply)
We're all fucked, but we were two weeks ago so nothing's really any different.
Settle down, you massive fannies.
(, Sat 2 Jul 2016, 15:28, 1 reply)
dunno lol

(, Tue 28 Jun 2016, 20:06, 5 replies)
Up to now Britain has been a stupidly expensive place to visit.
Soon I'll be able to afford to partake in your quaint customs, complain about your inedible food and take selfies in front of your crumbling old buildings.
(, Tue 28 Jun 2016, 16:17, 3 replies)
I live in Poland, and I'm happy with the result.
Almost every argument in support of the EU fails:

1) There has been no stability. How rapidly people have forgotten the 2008 banking crisis that affected every single European nation, or the 2010 PIIGS crisis that drained Europe's coffers dry, or the 2015 CHF unpegging that sent the Euro tumbling to new lows and the costs of loans soaring. Most EU states are sitting at or near 0% interest rates, EU exports are dwindling and there's no room left to manouvre.

2) Employment. The average worker is either on the brink of unemployment, hired on junk contracts or living in a squalid rural region that has failed to develop in decades despite EU subsidies year after year after year. States east of Berlin have not seen any significant rise in the standard of living despite 12 years of EU membership. 38% of the EU budget goes on agriculture and regional development, and for what? Nearly a million Poles still worked out it was better to go to the UK to earn a crust rather than try fix their own economy. The youth generation all along the mediterranean cost is completely and utterly fucked in terms of employment opportunities.

3) Democracy. Wasn't it great when the Irish had to revote the Lisbon treaty until they got it right? Wasn't it great how France and the Netherlands were denied a referendum on it, because they'd already rejected the EU Constitution (which is the Lisbon Treaty in all but name). Aren't the Greeks happy that their anti-austerity government was completely handicapped by the EU to force through changes the electorate didn't want, in order to receive bailouts for debts the Greeks never should have had in the first place? Isn't Poland doing great, with it's unresolved Constituional Crisis that breaks manifold EU laws but Brussels is powerless to resolve?

A huge number of the failsafes and social laws the EU enacts are useless, since the nation states already have those laws in place anyway, such as maternity leave and pay, or have opt-outs such as the working hours directive. Those that didn't already exist are easily avoided, such as Italy failing to meet its Maastricht criteria on inflation for 23 years, or Poland forcing people to set up single-person companies so that employers don't have to provide paid leave, or Greece hiding its public debt through contracts with private banks.

The whole organisation is a joke; an unwieldy behemoth torn apart by FUJIMAR principles, ineffectual laws, and the bullying of weaker states by the more powerful ones (France and Germany) to maintain an unsustainable economy and social divide, and I'm glad the UK will no longer be a part of it.
(, Tue 28 Jun 2016, 8:47, 24 replies)
This is all deliberate of course
Now when the economy tanks (as it was going to anyway as we reach that stage of the boom/bust cycle) the Tories can blame it all on Brexit, and not on the terrible cuts and austerity they've been inflicting on the plebs for the last 6 years.
(, Mon 27 Jun 2016, 21:17, Reply)
Barry Manilow's withered cock

(, Mon 27 Jun 2016, 15:29, 1 reply)

This question is now closed.

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