b3ta.com links
You are not logged in. Login or Signup
Home » links » Link 1379493 | Random (Thread)

This is a normal post Classic doublethink.
This whole 'anti-Zionism isn't anti-semitism' means Zionism requires a clear definition. I used to think that being opposed to Israeli expansionist foreign policy was anti-Zionist and so was not unsympathetic to those who declared themselves anti-Zionist. IMO anti-Zionism has increasingly come to mean opposition to the very right of the state of Israel to continue to exist, which I think clearly is anti-Semitic. Also Vice is a sack of shite for hipsters.
 (I helped save b3ta! Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Fri 29 Apr 2016, 11:13, , Reply)
This is a normal post Hang on...
"opposition to the very right of the state of Israel to continue to exist, [is] I think clearly is anti-Semitic"

Is it? By what "right" does the state of Israel exist, given that it didn't in 1947? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all the people living there should be driven into the sea or whatever it is their rabid haters want, but... by what "right" does *any* state exist?

Does some bunch of people have a "right" to come to England and say "Right, this place is now called Bongolia, and you have to go live in Yorkshire, just the top bit, and we're building a wall round it"? How would they come by this "right"? Sure, if they had bombs and tanks and helicopters and US backing they could make it happen... but a "right"? Help me, I'm not understanding zis.
 (SonofRojBlake, Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:07, , Reply)
This is a normal post I know exactly what you're getting at.
However the fact is Israel does now exist. Should the U.S. and U.K. et al have helped create it back in 1947? I would argue that they shouldn't have done. But hindsight is a beautiful thing. I don't think the international community can now say to Israel "Sorry chaps, this isn't really working out, you've had a good seven decade run, but now it's time to pack your bags." But on the other hand the settlers going outside the original borders is IMO unacceptable.
 (I helped save b3ta! Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:15, , Reply)
This is a normal post Not suggesting they should pack their bags
Everybody has to be somewhere. But countries come and go. Borders change. When I was a kid you could go on holiday to Yugoslavia, for instance.
No state has a "right" to exist.
 (SonofRojBlake, Fri 29 Apr 2016, 13:39, , Reply)
This is a normal post No absolute right to exist...
But any state that currently does exist has a right to attempt to continue to do so.

And whether or not anyone else likes it, ALL states will make their best attempt to continue to exist.

Corner an animal and try to attack it and you'll quickly find yourself subject to it's teeth and claws. Whether or not you think it has a moral right to brandish those teeth and claws is essentially irrelevant... brandish them it will.
 (eViLegion Chief Commissioner of the Scottish Lunacy Board, Fri 29 Apr 2016, 16:46, , Reply)
This is a normal post Israel is the ancient Jewish homeland
and existed as such for at least 1000 years before Mohammad was even born.

I'm not saying that's justification, I'm just saying that the Palestinians have just as poor a claim to it as the Israelis do, since they both got the land by conquest... but if we're going to side with the original owners, it'd be the Jewish people.
 (eViLegion Chief Commissioner of the Scottish Lunacy Board, Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post 'ancient Jewish homeland'
Hmmmm - this would be the 'homeland' of the 'wandering tribes of Israel' that lots of sky pixie believers have written of?
Keyword: Wandering
 (Captain Placid 24/7 ball gags, brownie mix and clown porn, Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:27, , Reply)
This is a normal post Well they stuck around long enough to build temples and crap that predate 1947.

(I helped save b3ta! Prufrock Lucifer, son of the morning!, Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:51, , Reply)
This is a normal post We should help the picts and celts drive the saxons out of england too.

(I helped save b3ta! Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:53, , Reply)
This is a normal post The point is, if you're going to try to use "who was here first" as an argument,
then you have to support the Jews, who have the earliest historical claim.

The OTHER point is that that line of argument is inherently bullshit.
 (eViLegion Chief Commissioner of the Scottish Lunacy Board, Fri 29 Apr 2016, 14:11, , Reply)
This is a normal post Well, Jews have the earliest written claim because a lot of other cultures had no tradition of writing shit down.
They wrote a book that said they were God's chosen people (why anyone would ever take umbrage to such a claim is beyond me!) and that they were there first so it's theirs.

Now, the only proof that they were indeed there first is the absence of any other written record or archaeological evidence contradicting that.

In any case, it's a silly argument. You'd need to turf everyone not native american out of the USA, most english and australians would have to relocate to saxony... historical claims.. pfft.
 (I helped save b3ta! Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Fri 29 Apr 2016, 15:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post It's almost as bad as Cumbria in '74.
Those Cumbrians with their bloody swaggers.
 (I helped save b3ta! Pig Bodine., Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post It always, always has.

(I helped save b3ta! The Ann Coulter Fan Club Babylon is burning at, Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:14, , Reply)
This is a normal post "IMO anti-Zionism has increasingly come to mean opposition to the very right of the state of Israel to continue to exist, which I think clearly is anti-Semitic."
Eh what?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta
 (I helped save b3ta! omnitruncatedkraken from Empire Algol, Fri 29 Apr 2016, 13:04, , Reply)