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Home » Messageboard » When the laws of physics pack up » Message 3351546

[challenge entry] Mebbes a bit tenuous

From the When the laws of physics pack up challenge. See all 348 entries (closed)

(I helped save b3ta! Bagpuss, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:01, archived)
# That fucker!
I knew he was up to no good.
He's one evil 'dinger.
(_, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:01, archived)
# that is superb
as it's saturday and I nearly failed my physics degree, have my nsfw woo.

(Missing Links, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:06, archived)
# i was about to say 'how is that not safe for work?'
(I helped save b3ta! rabid peanut - s'fucking right, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:08, archived)
# it's
something to do with the guys on the left?
(Missing Links, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:10, archived)
# Tenuous links are the best kind of links
so compo it!
(Gimbo, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:02, archived)
# Yeah, whoops
Now compo'd
(I helped save b3ta! Bagpuss, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:04, archived)
# What a hum dinger
of a scoop
(I helped save b3ta! Professor Fnord Regius Professor of B3ta Chronology, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:02, archived)
# HAHAHAHA
woosome!

although schrodingers cat is only an illustration of absurdity. not an actual experiment
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:02, archived)
# Have you not read any
Dirk Gently? :)
(I helped save b3ta! Professor Fnord Regius Professor of B3ta Chronology, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:03, archived)
# indeed i have
several times
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:04, archived)
# I have
but please remind me
(I helped save b3ta! Wildheart Baby. Drunken Mess In A Good Way, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:15, archived)
# You lie!
Next you'll be telling me that Hawking doesn't ride around at the speed of light.
(_, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:03, archived)
# No,
But Einstein had this train going at the speed of light and he found his watch wouldn't work.
(I helped save b3ta! Bagpuss, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:06, archived)
# so...
who is plank then?
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:07, archived)
# He's very small
but constantly around.
(I helped save b3ta! Bagpuss, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:10, archived)
# A bit like
Terry Wogan
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:11, archived)
# Kind of
Planck is h bar, Wogan's always in the bar.
(I helped save b3ta! Bagpuss, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:14, archived)
# Zing!
(I helped save b3ta! Christian Bale of Hay in a field, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:18, archived)
# it's both
i've done the experiment. it was absurd. that's what it's all about, OH!
(I helped save b3ta! spacefish bong!, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:04, archived)
# no
it's an illustration of duality in quantum states, where the act of observing creates a result.
(Missing Links, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:08, archived)
# i stand corrected
and confused


*flips though the ladybird book of Quantum Theory*
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:10, archived)
# confusion
was what the whole subject was about

/off high horse
(Missing Links, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:12, archived)
# But, speaking as a philosophy student,
"to be is to be perceved" said Berkeley

so there is no result of any experiment untill you have a look
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:15, archived)
# i.e.
you are a tree falling in the woods kind of philosopher?

;o)
(Missing Links, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:18, archived)
# no,
im the kind of philosopher who cant spell
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:20, archived)
# Yeah, but
the Sun would never let facts get in the way of a good story.
(I helped save b3ta! Bagpuss, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:12, archived)
# you're both right
edit: in that it was a thought experiment to show the seeming absurdity of quantum mechanics, given the superposition of 2 different probabilistic wave functions which collapse into a real world event after the observation of the event by a conscious observer. I think
(I helped save b3ta! Cog, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:12, archived)
# i hope
you used google
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:16, archived)
# Physics PhD
(failed) - so no guarantee of accuracy
(I helped save b3ta! Cog, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:17, archived)
# I take my hat off to you, sir
if i had one...
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:18, archived)
# you won't know
until you look

/hat
/coat
/pteradactyl
(Missing Links, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:19, archived)
# exactly
best explanation ever
edit:oops, credit to ClockworkDespot as well www.b3ta.com/board/3351596
(I helped save b3ta! Cog, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:22, archived)
# the cat
might be dead

how is that 'both dead and alive'?
(bub, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:30, archived)
# It's the Copenhagen interpretation
i.e. until a radioactive particle has been observed by someone it has both decayed and not decayed with certain probabilities. What Schrodinger did was say, "What if a decaying particle were set up to kill a cat?" Then the cat is both dead and alive.
(I helped save b3ta! Bagpuss, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:34, archived)
# hmpf .. word game?
-what state is the cat in?
i dont know

-what state is the cat in?
i dunno

-what state is the cat in!?
umm.. indeterminate state?
(bub, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:52, archived)
# the cat is not both dead and alive
it exists in an indeterminate state, which will not become determined until observed by a conscious mind (this of course makes the assumption that cats are not conscious), hence the collapse of the wave functions into a definate state (ie. the cat is really in an indeterminate state, it's not just that the observer doesn't know)

edit:plus what bagpuss said ^^^ (apart from the both dead and alive bit at the end :)
(I helped save b3ta! Cog, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:36, archived)
# the only logical conclusion i have made
is that Schrodinger really didnt like cats
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:40, archived)
# arf
he certainly didn't think they were conscious, which is a bit debatable
(I helped save b3ta! Cog, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:42, archived)
# well, *ahem*
for Wittgenstein, conciousness is impossible without language

for for Descartes "an animal screaming in pain is like a chiming clock"

that Descartes didnt like any bloody animal it seems. twat.
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:44, archived)
# well said
although they seemed to miss the fact that language is merely a tool to convey the approximate state of one or more concepts from one mind to another, and I think that animals do that perfectly well (and between their own species, probably even better). I think that the whole non-conscious animal thing is a throwback to a Christian world-view. And don't get me started on the fact that when Descarte said "I think therefore I am" he pre-supposed the existence of an "I".
(I helped save b3ta! Cog, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:49, archived)
# I agree
in Descates' Meditations he explains in the first chapter how he must doubt everything. then goes on this massive leap of faith that he exists because he doubts and doubt is a type of thinking. seems contradictory, in my opinion.

although, his ontological argument in the next chapter is second to none (as st anselm makes very little logical sense)

and im guessing this post is going to be particularly squashed up.
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:55, archived)
# cheers!


/recognition
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:38, archived)
# I love Berkeley
I guess he was the last of the theologian-scientists (edit: or rather, theologian-scientist-philosophers)
(I helped save b3ta! Cog, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:43, archived)
# If anything
that pic should win (or at least come as the 4th winner) for inspiring such interlectualness.ness.
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:49, archived)
# absolutely
reminds me, Woo to the pic!
(I helped save b3ta! Cog, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:51, archived)
# by the way
"language is merely a tool to convey the approximate state of one or more concepts from one mind to another,"

who said that? t'is good!
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 21:01, archived)
# hmpf
not just conveyance, but organisation too.
(bub, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 21:07, archived)
# me!
(I must give credit to alcohol as well though :)
(I helped save b3ta! Cog, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 21:10, archived)
# ah, alcohol
It has all the answers!

(exept how to get home)
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 21:13, archived)
# arf!
(I helped save b3ta! Cog, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 21:15, archived)
# what if you put a video camera in the box?
(Zoinkid, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:15, archived)
# The cat in question
would either
a) live
b) die
c) become the new reality tv star
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:19, archived)
# in assembly at school, the teacher doing the asembly asked if anyone hade heard of schrodinger's cat
i was the only one out of about 260 students
(I helped save b3ta! rabid peanut - s'fucking right, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:22, archived)
# hahaha!
(I helped save b3ta! spacefish bong!, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:02, archived)
# hahaha
i'm never gonna get tired of this!
(I helped save b3ta! Naive Amoeba Bored Cig, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:03, archived)
# hehe
lolage :)
(I helped save b3ta! tweaknik, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:12, archived)