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# the cat is not both dead and alive
it exists in an indeterminate state, which will not become determined until observed by a conscious mind (this of course makes the assumption that cats are not conscious), hence the collapse of the wave functions into a definate state (ie. the cat is really in an indeterminate state, it's not just that the observer doesn't know)

edit:plus what bagpuss said ^^^ (apart from the both dead and alive bit at the end :)
(I helped save b3ta! Cog, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:36, archived)
# the only logical conclusion i have made
is that Schrodinger really didnt like cats
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:40, archived)
# arf
he certainly didn't think they were conscious, which is a bit debatable
(I helped save b3ta! Cog, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:42, archived)
# well, *ahem*
for Wittgenstein, conciousness is impossible without language

for for Descartes "an animal screaming in pain is like a chiming clock"

that Descartes didnt like any bloody animal it seems. twat.
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:44, archived)
# well said
although they seemed to miss the fact that language is merely a tool to convey the approximate state of one or more concepts from one mind to another, and I think that animals do that perfectly well (and between their own species, probably even better). I think that the whole non-conscious animal thing is a throwback to a Christian world-view. And don't get me started on the fact that when Descarte said "I think therefore I am" he pre-supposed the existence of an "I".
(I helped save b3ta! Cog, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:49, archived)
# I agree
in Descates' Meditations he explains in the first chapter how he must doubt everything. then goes on this massive leap of faith that he exists because he doubts and doubt is a type of thinking. seems contradictory, in my opinion.

although, his ontological argument in the next chapter is second to none (as st anselm makes very little logical sense)

and im guessing this post is going to be particularly squashed up.
(ClockworkDespot, Sat 19 Jun 2004, 20:55, archived)