Becoming a manager without a pay rise?
Its quite amusing that this weeks QOTW is about management. As I've had to face a somewhat difficult decision to make. I got the offer of a promotion to IT Manager. Career wise this is amazing. I've just been sys admin for the last ten years. Current manager left, and they offered me the place. Im going to be heavily involved in some high level projects, such as integrating two IT Teams together, moving support from one of our offices to another company and also taking control of the team and running it how it should be. (Last manager was useless). Opportunity is great.
But.. no pay rise. Due to mergers, take overs and major change of the company, recession etc there is a huge pay freeze at the moment. If i dont take the job they can just split and push it out to other departmental managers. They wouldnt be employing anyone else.

My friends say I'm an utter mug for considering taking the position and that they're walking all over me. Making me feel like an idiot and used. I'm going to get a load of sh*t from upper management and im not getting anything for it.

Theyre going to be sending me on management training courses and going to be putting me through for their employee of the month award thing which is a cash bonus.

What do you guys think? Should I do it? Or should I tell them to go stuff themselves and if they want someone to manage, they can bloody well pay for it!
(Miggyman, Sat 12 Jun 2010, 11:35, 23 replies)

Every cloud
My instinct would be to go for the promotion, gain the associated qualifications from the courses and the reassess whether you are ever going to see an increase or not.

If there is a genuine freeze then surely the prospect of a new, exciting role must beat doing the same admin job for another decade?

Given you've been at the place 10 years, I'm not sure how keen you'd be to leave to go elsewhere, however an IT Manager elsewhere would surely earn much more than Systems Admin.

Go for it - a more exciting, involved and visible job can't hurt. You've got the chance to run the ship properly and how you want as opposed to being farmed out to a number of managers and diluted
( elgordo, Sat 12 Jun 2010, 11:40, closed)

Thanks
Sorry I've been doing that part of my career for 10 years. (well went up from junior, regular, senior) I havn't been at the same company ten years.
(Miggyman, Sat 12 Jun 2010, 12:38, closed)

Do it.
Think about next year or the year after when if they're still not appreciating you financially you can walk out of there into a job with 10K or more annually on top of your current salary.
( superstoater is so mauve, you don't know what he's planning, Sat 12 Jun 2010, 11:43, closed)

Take the role
failing anything else, you can always use the experience gained to apply for a similiar, more lucrative orle somewhere else, in a year or so.
( Happy Phantom has been to Hastings, Brighton, and Eastbourne too, Sat 12 Jun 2010, 11:45, closed)

Sounds like you really want to do it
so go for it.

Bonus: experience, C.V.
(roysin, Sat 12 Jun 2010, 11:47, closed)

Take the job
and ask for a pay rise. When they mention the pay freeze tell them you're happy to defer the increase until the end of the pay freeze.

At this point you'll probably be offered A NON SPECIFIC MANAGEMENT PROMISE along the lines of, "don't worry we'll review your pay at the end of the freeze". Don't accept the NSMP it's the equivalent of a parent saying "we'll see" to a child.

Stick to your guns and agree a figure and a date for payment to start. If they really want you in that job for the long term they'll be willing to negoiate and reach a figure.

Get something in writing, even if it's just an email. You can force this by sending an email to your manager with a summary of the conversation asking if there is anything that needs changing.

The main reason in writing is to protect yourself if your manager leaves before the pay rise kicks in.

Whatever happens though, take the job, get the experience. If they don't pay you right, leave for a better paid job.
( Ring Of Fire A petty, drooling belming butthurt retard., Sat 12 Jun 2010, 11:54, closed)

Definitely go for it
It's the perfect opportunity to show them you know how to run things, so you'll be first on the list when the pay freeze is lifted, and even if they don't end up giving you more money you can show your experience to someone who will.
( .Yeti. El amor en los tiempos del cólera, Sat 12 Jun 2010, 11:55, closed)

Take the job
Get the experience, and if they start taking the piss, leave and get a better job when the opportunity arises.
( jim_bob can herd cats., Sat 12 Jun 2010, 11:57, closed)

Take the job.
You've been there 10 years,you seem to be in for the long haul so you need to move forward. I'm sure the pay rise will follow in better times.
( The Awful Puppy Bakery is still bored, Sat 12 Jun 2010, 12:26, closed)

ive been at this company 3 years.
Just my career is 10 years old :) Sorry i might not have worded it too well!
(Miggyman, Sat 12 Jun 2010, 12:40, closed)

Don't forget.
Once you are in IT management it is a requirement of the job that you document as little as possible so that if they try to replace you the incoming manager has no chance.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Sat 12 Jun 2010, 17:19, closed)

Take it!
Free management training, looks good on C.V., suck it up for a year, make yourself indispensable, then go (or threaten too).
(sugar_tits, Sat 12 Jun 2010, 18:12, closed)

What kind of pay freeze?
I thought a pay freeze was where people didn't get pay rises in their existing jobs, not where they kept old pay rates when taking new jobs. Do senior staff just get the same pay as those at the bottom? Or does the rate of pay depend on the job being done?

If they want you to take on extra responsibilities for no extra pay, you've got the default option of sticking with your existing, presumably less burdensome job for just as much pay as the new job you're being offered. If you put it like that to them, how would they respond?
(Honourable Member is upstanding, Sat 12 Jun 2010, 18:34, closed)

Take it!
Go for it. The job might not pay more, but IT Manager looks a lot better on a CV. Also, follow what was said above. Get an agreement for when you *will* be given a payrise and get it in writing. Above all, get it in writing!
(calamarain just invented dehydrated water, Sat 12 Jun 2010, 20:06, closed)

Do it
But get everything you can out of it. My reasoning is that if they cannot pay you then they cannot pay anyone else to do it either.

Bargain for non financial benefits like work from home days, shares, access to pool cars when you want them (business and private if you can), your pick of the staff you want to go with you etc. It all adds to the benefits of the job.

But most of all, get them to agree a pay increase when the company picks up again. Also, take all the experience you can get so if you do need to walk you can...
(Beaverman Opulence, I has it., Sat 12 Jun 2010, 21:05, closed)

Do it!
But read and follow the advice people have given here.
Good luck!!!
(Le Grenouille, Sun 13 Jun 2010, 0:45, closed)

Don't do it...
Tell me where it is and I'll do it.
( His Popiness the Hole Invaded Poland on, Sun 13 Jun 2010, 0:59, closed)

Ask yourself one question....
Do you or your colleagues consider you to be a good techie?

This may fly in the face of convention here so far, but after a fair few years at the IT game, I would hands down say that good techies make crap managers, and generally end up miserable in a managerial role due to it being unsurprisingly non-technical and mostly about admin.

However if you think you're rubbish, you have the potential to be better at being a manager at least. *chortle*

As for the no pay rise thing, I wouldn't worry about it, I've worked in so many companies where people get promoted in IT roles and get sod all extra for it, that it's more surprising if they do get a pay rise than if they don't.
(repooc, Sun 13 Jun 2010, 1:24, closed)

The true question is...
Will it be more fun? If it's going to be more entertaining than your present bit, then take it. If not, screw it.
(Trial.TM, Sun 13 Jun 2010, 10:18, closed)

Take it.
Ring of Fire speaks wisdom; besides - unless this has been a VERY unusual recession, things'll start picking up again in the next couple of years; bide your time and, pretty soon, there'll be other vacancies elsewhere for more money which, at the very least, you'll be able to use as leverage.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Sun 13 Jun 2010, 17:09, closed)

Well I'll be the dissenting voice then.
Face it. You're getting fucked over.
To those who say "the pay rise will come in the future" it won't.
The senior management will fuck you over every single time.

If they want you to do the job (which is obvious they do) then they should pay you according to your skills and expertise.

I was faced with the same decision a few years back, got fucked over by the company and I won't let another do it again.
(zebby wasting irony here on, Mon 14 Jun 2010, 14:09, closed)

Do it...
If you can't get (or they won't give you) a date for a payrise, ask for access to training (such as an OU degree) paid for and with study days and get them to sponsor and pay for professional membership (BCS in the UK).

That way in 3 or 4 years when the pay freeze is over if they don't offer you more money you can walk out there with 4 years management experience and more qualifications as well as networking opportunities from professional membership.

Best of luck anyway.
( notmyrealname, Mon 14 Jun 2010, 21:23, closed)

You know what?
At the end of the day, you're still just pushing buttons in a dimly lit room.




Interpret that how you like.
( Digeridude Lord Wellington's Beef Trapeze, Mon 14 Jun 2010, 21:41, closed)