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Just as a thought experiment:

suppose Lembit Öpik has his way and we develop sophisticated anti-meteor devices. Then suppose a huge asteroid is discovered heading for earth. Presumably you'd argue that we should let nature take its course, rather than deflect the asteroid? If so, what good does that do? If not, is the asteroid not part of nature in your estimation?

(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 3:55, archived)

there was a study

on asteroids that showed that we can not deflect them as shown in hollywod blockbusters due to the composition of their structures, our efforts with missiles would be absorbed and would create a nuclear fallout on top of the asteroid hitting us.
Space sails will not work either as the size of them would not be sufficient to do anything.
There would be nothing we could do apart from go underground and hope.

(I_am_B, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 3:59, archived)

I saw that study too

which is why I didn't specify how this system would work. You have to suppose that we've thought of an effective way, for the purpose of the question.
I think it might put you in a dilemma. You mustn't avoid the dilemma by putting up technical obstacles.

(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:02, archived)

we would not get that far

if we created something that could do that, it would be used on earth for other means or by unavoidable accident before hand and we would wipe ourselves out anyway ,so we would not have to ( or would be able to )worry about the asteroid/

(I_am_B, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:06, archived)

But your lack of faith in technology aside,

the interesting question is whether supposing the situation arose you would side with people, technology and life, or nature, burning space rocks, and death from above.

(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:10, archived)

the only solution would be

to leave the earth in space ships, but agriculturists in space will never work, and id hate to be stuck in a smaller space-ship with loads of people that believe agricultural lies drifting in the hope of finding somewhere to go, so i would stay on the earth.

(I_am_B, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:13, archived)

It's an asteroid-deflector

that works in an unspecified way.
It's not a giant escape pod. We haven't got one of those, in this thought experiment. What we've got is a device capable of deflecting the asteroid. Is it acceptable to you to use this device, or not?

I'm getting the impression the answer is no...

(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:15, archived)

i think you live in hope

too much of our culture.. maybe it was too many scifi films of man conquering everything ray harry-housen could throw at us.
This device would destroy us anyway, so why bother.

(I_am_B, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:21, archived)

I know you think that.

I'm getting that message loud and clear.
But you won't answer the question.
It's a hypothetical question to test your consistency. It doesn't have to have any likelihood of happening.

(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:22, archived)

destruction by asteroid

or destruction by man made asteroid/planet killer,,
death both ways...
at least if we dont try to build an asteroid killer we half the destruction possibilities

(I_am_B, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:24, archived)

The asteroid-deflector doesn't have the incidental effect of killing us all.

You just made that part up, because the idea that technology might save life on earth from a natural disaster would undermine your whole value-system (in which nature is a benevolent god and technology only causes harm).

(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:28, archived)

it depends

you can have technology thats good and tech thats bad.
With our current cultural vision designing it we will fail and double our chances of detruction, it would become inevitable.

But if we had a cultural change to our vision ( that has happened lots of times in human history) to bring it more in line with the cultural vision that evolved with man from the start of time then we would have every hope of surviving.

(I_am_B, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:31, archived)

So assuming ... that,

you would deflect the asteroid?

(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:33, archived)

depends what happens to man

the tech and intelligence we know today , NO, it would not work.
The tech of a new ( remembered )vision driving us, YES.

Hypothetical question for you :

If you realised everything your cultural vision was founded on was a lie and would lead to human extinction, would you still believe the lies and carry on to fit in with the flock ,or would you drop that cultural vision ?

(I_am_B, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:39, archived)

I'll come back to that, because we haven't got to the best bit yet.

You've chosen to deflect the asteroid. This is because, in the judgement of you, a human, it's what's best for nature. Are you comfortable with that?

(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:43, archived)

your trying to put words into it

you put into the hypothetical question an asteroid mechanic that was foolproof and not dangerous to life on earth in any way, something that we will NEVER reach with our current cultural vision. So in your hypothetical question that will never come true the answer would be yes, but in reality the answer would be no.

(I_am_B, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:51, archived)

you're not in principle adverse to deciding what's best for nature.

(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:52, archived)

every creature

on the planet has an inbuilt desire to live,
thats part of nature, to deny it is to deny you are part of nature.

To sometimes give as good as you get is part of nature too.

But to try to conquer is not.

To think ( agricultural vision) you are above nature and outside of its laws is foolish, and unintelligent.

(I_am_B, Tue 18 Oct 2005, 4:58, archived)