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This is a normal post Make sure you shut down discussion by branding him racist and then ignoring anything he says.
This is why brexit happened.
Sounds like he voted brexit because he wanted "less forins taking our jobs and using public services". Smugly calling him racist then shutting him down, instead of accepting he is uncomfortable with change and people different to him leads us to where we are now.
 (dyllon nice beaver., Sat 9 Dec 2017, 9:56, , Reply)
This is a normal post So how would you suggest that such a situation be handled better?

(I helped save b3ta! wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 10:19, , Reply)
This is a normal post By not shutting down discussion by branding him racist and then ignoring anything he says

(I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 11:02, , Reply)
This is a normal post How would you do that?
Only what you appear to be advocating is that he be allowed to carry right on saying that brown people are inferior.

This bit about not calling a racist a racist is weird. How does that help anyone?
 (I helped save b3ta! wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 11:34, , Reply)
This is a normal post
Your opinion is stupid and you're an idiot for holding it.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 11:52, , Reply)
This is a normal post "I hate brown people. They should all go home"
"That's a perfectly acceptable opinion."

Everyone lives happily ever after.
 (I helped save b3ta! wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 12:09, , Reply)
This is a normal post You've totally missed the point
You could say that the NHS is such a gigantic employer that the only way to get sufficient qualified staff is to recruit overseas. That these people are every bit as capable of doing the job as "British" people. You could provide stats showing this.

Or you could apply a handy label that absolves you of responsibility to actually fucking challenge his bullshit opinion.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 12:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post But that’s arguing entirely the wrong thing
“They’re inferior.”
“They’re necessary.”

“OK, they’re inferior but necessary.”
 (I helped save b3ta! wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 12:48, , Reply)
This is a normal post
"these people are every bit as capable of doing the job as "British" people".
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 13:12, , Reply)
This is a normal post Because the reason racists think that brown people are inferior is that they think they’re no good at their jobs.
Not because they look different.
 (I helped save b3ta! wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 13:58, , Reply)
This is a normal post Actually I believe that is part of it, yes
But I'm not going to do all the work for you. There's a start. If you genuinely care about the issue then build on it. But don't revert to pigeon-holing or name-calling as it's catastrophic for your chances of ever changing their minds.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 15:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post I imagine he doesn't like being the minority which is fair enough when you've come to expect your world to be a certain way.
The DM etc are despicable in fanning the flames with BS that implies incorrectly immigrants aren't overall positive to this country.
However shouting "you're RACIST (and i most certainly am not, I'm terribly liberal don't cha know, i even bought a big issue once) LA-LA-LA-LA" and sticking your fingers in you're ears doesn't help.
We all have to live on this island, including those you don't agree with. People who think those of different colours are inherently inferior are idiots but their vote on brexit/GE counts exactly the same as yours. You understand they think you are just as wrong as you think they are?
*Engage them before we get our own Trump*
 (dyllon nice beaver., Sat 9 Dec 2017, 12:44, , Reply)
This is a normal post How would you do that?
You’re advocating “engaging” without specifying how. How do you get someone to change their deeply unpalatable ideas unless you tell them they’re deeply unpalatable?
 (I helped save b3ta! wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 13:46, , Reply)
This is a normal post I'd listen to them. Why do they have these feelings?
You'd have to see where they get their information. Some of this will be heavily biased eg the DM. The guardian is also biased. Being able to spot the difference between facts and opinion would be a useful skill.
It would be a good start if both politicians and the media had to tell the truth and be held to account for lying.
But what is 'the truth'? Everything is relative. If the majority of humans are racist does that mean actually you are wrong not them? We can only have an opinion based on our experiences and learning up to this point as individuals. They will have had different experiences to you, or interpreted events differently to you.
Are humans programmed to be racist because it is safer to trust sometime in your tribe or family than strangers?
You seem fairly dogmatic in thinking these people are racists and that's all they'll ever be and they are bad and stupid.
Again: your vote counts just the same as theirs and they think they are just as right as you do.
 (dyllon nice beaver., Sat 9 Dec 2017, 14:35, , Reply)
This is a normal post
No, where we are now comes from ignorance of the facts, and petty little-Englandism.

He was right to be shut down, as the whole 'forrins take our jobs and public services' argument is a total fallacy, not borne out by any kind of analysis or study. As a matter of fact, it's used as a convenient handle for the 'I'm not racist, but' brigade to validate their thinly-veiled xenophobia - trotted out by rags like the Fail and the Torygraph to appease their hateful swivel-eyed readership. It's poisonous propaganda lapped up by the ignoranti who are unwilling or unable to fact-check.

That's why he was called racist, that's why he was shut down.
 (Enron Hubbard had a big meaty piss on, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 11:19, , Reply)
This is a normal post So he shouldn't be allowed to say anything ever?
Perhaps ask why he feels like that?
Perhaps he feels they're taking all the jobs, using the nhs more than their fair share, not speaking English, having different customs, causing more crime, getting council houses sooner than British people.
..... which if you just read the Hateful Mail and believe that terrible rag you'd think you had every right to not like them. You'd probably wonder why pinkos like you could possibly think any different.
 (dyllon nice beaver., Sat 9 Dec 2017, 12:29, , Reply)
This is a normal post
*Ahem*

'the whole 'forrins take our jobs and public services' argument is a total fallacy, not borne out by any kind of analysis or study. As a matter of fact, it's used as a convenient handle for the 'I'm not racist, but' brigade to validate their thinly-veiled xenophobia'
 (Enron Hubbard had a big meaty piss on, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 14:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post But you're saying it as if they know they're wrong but don't care
and use the DM to justify their position. I think everyone is a little bit racist or has the potential to be so to a greater or less degree. Put them in different environments and you'll get it expressed accordingly. But i don't think they are 'bad people' and nothing can be done.
Using the word ignoranti makes you seem just as unable to consider other opinions as them.
 (dyllon nice beaver., Sat 9 Dec 2017, 17:14, , Reply)
This is a normal post He was allowed to say it. He didn't get jailed for those views.
You seem to be suggesting that freedom of speech means you cannot be criticised for anything you say. I also have the freedom to tell you that your view is basically unacceptable in civilised society.

Perhaps he does feel those things you say, but he didn't articulate those things and simply STARTED his complaint with the colour of their skin. If you ARE racist, I suggest you creep your racism into your argument gradually, rather than sledgehammering it into someone's face in almost the first sentence. Because it's only human nature to not wish to listen further to unsubstantiated bollocks when one hears it.

You're complaining that he was shut down... well, he had the opportunity to not be shut down by speaking a balanced nuanced opinion, based on facts and figures, which (and this is crucial) someone else actually wanted to hear. Instead he complained about all the brown people from the European union, which was not only very racist but also obviously factually incorrect.

Freedom of speech does NOT guarantee a captive audience of more intelligent, better educated people than you being forced to listen to your utterly heinous bullshit.
 (eViLegion Chief Commissioner of the Scottish Lunacy Board, Sun 10 Dec 2017, 12:23, , Reply)
This is a normal post "refusing to engage rationally with irrational ideas is why brexit happened"
no, brexit happened because irrational ideas were given a voice and then listened to.
 (I helped save b3ta! mutated monty, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 14:06, , Reply)
This is a normal post Quotation marks aren't for your interpretation of someone's statement
"This isn't how they work either".
I said people weren't listened to or engaged with in an effective way to change their mind. And branding people racists and saying they shouldn't be listened to is no way to go forward as a society.
From their perspective their ideas aren't irrational. It is a little arrogant to say someone's ideas are irrational.
On a separate note i really like your image challenge entries.
 (dyllon nice beaver., Sat 9 Dec 2017, 14:59, , Reply)
This is a normal post Their ideas were engaged with rationally at the time
Remember all the experts on telly patiently explaining it all. Not patronising. People didn't listen
 (benito vaselini no not that one, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 15:39, , Reply)
This is a normal post But evidently not in an unappealing enough way.
The leave campaign was effective by playing on people's prejudices and offering a wonderful alternative (and lies). Stay just had 'it'll be worse if we're out'. Which if you're having a shit time at the moment you want a change.
It would be interesting to know how the vote would have gone if done before any campaigns.
That you describe the experts as "patiently explaining it all" is exactly the problem, talking down to leavers as if they are children.
 (dyllon nice beaver., Sat 9 Dec 2017, 16:52, , Reply)
This is a normal post You're blaming the people who tried to warn everyone
It's weird. Blame the people who did the stupid thing despite warnings, the onus should be on them
 (benito vaselini no not that one, Sat 9 Dec 2017, 22:24, , Reply)
This is a normal post I spoke to someone who had suffered brain damage a few weeks ago.
I must admit, I was a bit arrogant when I casually assumed their statement "Hrrrrwkkkk floogead rekhwoeeee." was both factually incorrect and massively irrational. I stopped listening to them, but maybe I ought to have engaged to convince them otherwise.
 (eViLegion Chief Commissioner of the Scottish Lunacy Board, Sun 10 Dec 2017, 12:29, , Reply)