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This is a link post Let's NOT bomb Syria
Yeah, I know it's a petition, but bombing Syria will:

1) Kill thousands of innocent people
2) Make a Paris Style attack in the UK pretty much guaranteed.
3) Increase ISIS recruits and make them stronger

Oh yeah double post whoops ,
 (The Tramp Surveyor, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 11:32, , Reply)
This is a normal post Fuck that, exterminate those wahhabist cunts with extreme prejudice and violence
A little reminder what that lot are upto: proof.nationalgeographic.com/2015/11/24/women-escaped-slavery-isis-sinjar/
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 11:42, , Reply)
This is a normal post You don't need to tell me what cunts they are, I know.
But bombing will do fuck all to destroy them.

(By all means send in ground troops, but the government are too scared to to that).
 (The Tramp Surveyor, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 11:46, , Reply)
This is a normal post It is the mother load of delicate regional balances
Turkey being paranoid about Kurds, various Kurdish groups being able to take on these Islamic fascist cunts when they have air support, Iranian and Hezbollah Shia interests, Alawites, Druze, etc, all of whom have suffered under the Saudi influenced vermin of ISIS. Adding to the air campaign to annihilate these locust dogs will at least enable everyone else to perhaps come to their senses and negotiate peace out of this fuck up of a mess, which is completely off the cards as long as ISIS exists as an entity.
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 11:54, , Reply)
This is a normal post On a purely militarily point of view
Signing petition and hiding behind a hedge in Dartmoor will not make ISIS go away.
No matter how I would love that to be the solution.
Endless talk and giving them cuddles neither.

There are two ways to get rid of them:
1)Cut Funding.
2)Destroy them militarily.

1) Is impractical because it means attacking Saudi Arabia (sanctions and all).
And God (all of the gods) knows long long our elites have been fucking livestock heads with their elites.
So not going to happen, even in a parallel universe.

1) Destroy them militarily:
Where there are two general options of using airforces.
Strategic and tactical.

Strategic is great for politicians, nice vids of buildings blowing up, great stats etc etc.
But as Sinjar proves, of little real significance because the buggers have learnt to dig, dig and dig.
The only ones without 10m of earth above their heads being civilians.
So while some supplies might get smashed, the overall effectiveness is limited.
If one cares to look at history of "long" wars;
WW2 Europe, WW2 Pacific, Korea and Vietnam.
Indiscriminate bombing of Berlin, Tokyo, Saigon, Pyongyang did nothing in the grand scheme of things.
But it did kill/main loads of civilians (innocent or not).
The only strategic bombing that did anything of value was destroying roads, bridges and tunnels.
The good thing about this kind of bombing is that one can chose to do it outside of towns.

Tactical is a whole other animal.
More the kind of stuff the Germans then the Russians excelled at.
That means close corporation with front-line troops and smashing only the stuff that gets in their way.
This moves forward like a wave, giving a big heads up to civilians to head for the hills.
But this is far less politically friendly, being up close and personal, yields far less cute imagery, is brutal and forces one to collaborate with the boots (Kurds, Iranians, Hezbolla etc) - a politicians nightmare, ruining all the small boxes where he had put all the different factions in.
This leads to a war of attrition with a very big advantage in our corner that can lead to a rout where every single one of these killer rapists can be splattered over the landscape.

Simply looking at past wars, I would be inclined to suggest doing a mostly tactical air campaign (implies having our FAC's in the mud with Iranians etc) with a limited strategic campaign aimed at transport infrastructure.

So if there was a petition of "NO indiscriminate Strategic bombing of Syria", I'd sign it.
A "no bombing because if we are nice, Isis will be nice to us" will not get my support.
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:02, , Reply)
This is a normal post The problem is Saudi Arabia
When our leaders realise all of this wahhabist crap that has decimated the muslim community world wide with it's puritanical nonsense is actually the real problem here and actually outweighs any economic benefit trading with the place, the sooner Islam itself might be able to address the fact the Saudi influence on it as an ideology has hurt it horribly. Something that won't happen as long as the Saudis have so much wealth to spread around the world. We can go after scum like ISIS until the world is reduced to rubble and ruins. Without tackling the root of the infestation -Saudi Arabia- it is a monster that will always be in our midsts
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:11, , Reply)
This is a normal post We invaded Iraq after 9/11 because of all those Iraqi terrorists in the planes.
Oh they weren't iraki? Then who should have we invaded then?
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:14, , Reply)
This is a normal post The invasion os Iraq remains a mystery to me to this day
The only thing I can think of is Iraq was a potential threat to Saudi Arabia, as was seen in the explosion of words prior to the invasion over oil prices. The Saudis never much liked Syria either. So they've done rather well out of the last few decades.

And not a single refugee to boot, despite them having facilities on hand to house thousands and thousands of them in their air conditioned tent cities for the pilgrims
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:24, , Reply)
This is a normal post Greatest dumb fuck idea since Barbarosa.
Or Gallipoli.
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:28, , Reply)
This is a normal post you've convinced me that bombing isn't the answer!

(I helped save b3ta! tickle I was away, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:01, , Reply)
This is a normal post So more people suffer under their reign?
Fuck me you are evil
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Sun 29 Nov 2015, 1:03, , Reply)
This is a normal post Yes, but Cameron seems bent on getting rid of Assad in the long term and simply increasing Saudi influence in Syria

(I helped save b3ta! Rebel biscuit stercore sumus et nos esse novimus, Sun 29 Nov 2015, 1:35, , Reply)
This is a normal post Thanks for your analysis general Montgomery
Do you know what the fuck you are talking about? Or are just another internet armchair analyst whose been educated to think his opinion is worth the rest of us listening to?
Why not restrict your asinine politics to the VIth form common room where they belong and leave /Links alone?
 (I helped save b3ta! The Ann Coulter Fan Club Babylon is burning at, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 14:38, , Reply)
This is a normal post yeah pal!
who died and gave you the right to attack my lovely mind with your thought abominations.
apologise immediately.
 (Melatonin, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:36, , Reply)
This is a normal post You've insulted my religion
And must die by beheading. But first I have to blow my self up.
 (I helped save b3ta! The Ann Coulter Fan Club Babylon is burning at, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 18:29, , Reply)
This is a normal post "Feel searches pockets for lighter"
Sorry mate, it's going to be matches.
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 18:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post Well obviously
the point I think, is that dropping bombs into areas populated mostly with civilians is not the smartest way to do that -- terrorists it turns out don't tend to group up in large groups, but rather hide among the general population.

if anything you would make it easier for them to show a continual stream of dead children pics, and recruit more cunts to their lost cause.

there are better ways, and if we take a step back and engage our brains we could shut them down by trying to stem the flow of support and weapons from the gulf states.
 (Melatonin, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 11:50, , Reply)
This is a normal post No one is deliberately aiming their missiles at civilians
we are not murderous dogs like those Jihadi scum
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 11:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post you dont have to aim at the civilians
its just what bombs do.

(also, I might be well off the mark with my suggestions of how to deal with them properly, my understanding is extremely limited, my point is that this is not the way to do it.)

It's like we have learned nothing from the last ~15 years of fighting this war on terror only to see less stability and ultimately an increased threat to people inside and outside the region.
 (Melatonin, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 11:58, , Reply)
This is a normal post I obviously completely disagree
Incinerate the nazi cunts. Then perhaps incinerate Saudi Arabia for unleashing this plague on the world. And i'm not referring to Islam.
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 12:01, , Reply)
This is a normal post I get the desire
It just seems clear that for every one you incinerate
you'll draw in two more borderline members that want to fight the evil empire that incinerates their countrymen (some of whom will have had nothing to do with any of it).

It's a plan for perpetual war, and it's better addressed sooner than later.
 (Melatonin, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 12:11, , Reply)
This is a normal post Anyone attracted to that lot needs marking up to be incinerated as well
given they might as well wear a badge marked 'I am a fucking horrible cunt'

Or at least bludgeoned to death by the rest of us for being a murderous fucked up cunt
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 12:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post so your answer to barbaric genocidal murderers
is to become barbaric genocidal murderers ourselves?
I think we should bomb the shit out of them too, but the others are right - it's not the solution, it may be part of a solution, but it's definitely not the solution
 (I helped save b3ta! JeremyBeadlesHands, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 12:47, , Reply)
This is a normal post Eviscerating their existence off the face of the planet is my desire
then the rest of us might be able to get along a bit easier without those violent spastics hurting us with their violent superstitious bullshit
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 12:51, , Reply)
This is a normal post Far less Nazis around after they got clobered.
Same goes for Vietnam clobbering the Khmer Rouge. Far less of them around since.
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post This^
It's clobbering time
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:30, , Reply)
This is a normal post Don't hear much about the Tamil Tigers any more either

(I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:32, , Reply)
This is a normal post A good clobering probly has someth to with that.
Just guessing.
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:36, , Reply)
This is a normal post Far less islamic miltants about since we clobbered them in Afghanistan eh?

(I helped save b3ta! tickle I was away, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:06, , Reply)
This is a normal post Started cloberings using SF and northen alliance.
Then got lost being nice to local warlords and nation building.
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post Nazis were a group
Isis is an 'idea'. Blow up some, they'll crop up elsewhere, in bigger numbers.
 (The Tramp Surveyor, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:43, , Reply)
This is a normal post And an Idea too
They tried to crop up afterwards in South America, but the weather was too nice and they got distracted.
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 17:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post too dark for me
when you stop caring that the clumsily targeted 'that lot' includes elements who are
A) no hopers who are simply not cool with the inevitable civilian deaths
B) the civilians -- see point A

I just don't know where we go from there.
 (Melatonin, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 12:53, , Reply)
This is a normal post That lot = people sympathetic/apologetic/active ISIS
all must be eradicated with extreme violence
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:03, , Reply)
This is a normal post You must seperate strategic and tactical bombing;
Strategic: smash that building that could be a weapon factory or an industrial bakery. Civilians? Shmevilians...

Tactical: smash "that" building, rock or trench "points" where some natty men dressed in black with no access to grooming supplies are shooting at the nice people with the white cowboy hats right now.
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:20, , Reply)
This is a normal post Pretty sure people who join islamic miltant groups cos their families have been killed by bombs don't really care which sort the bombs were.

(I helped save b3ta! tickle I was away, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:09, , Reply)
This is a normal post Nice kid, but you don't listen.
If you bomb far to the rear, aka strategic, the chance of creating innocent collateral is exponentially higher.
Thus creating the breeding ground for what you say.

But I think that breeding ground is mostly fairy tales.

I don't see hordes of German, Japanese, Vietnamese, North Korean or Afghan terrortourist blowing up US cities...

Terrorists we are confronted to now tend to be mostly home grown and/or westernised.
So I think something else must be pushing them over the edge.

Constant Wahabi propaganda being the big one.
And it does it's recruiting over perceived offences (cartoons, desecrated korans, we are better than those sinners etc) not on "Poor us, we got bombed".
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:30, , Reply)
This is a normal post hang on
if you've been reading that Wahabi propaganda, why should I trust a damn dirty word you say. someone call the feds!

I'm listening, I just dont find the idea that there is a front where the terrosists hang out and a rear where all the civililans are very compelling. Or indeed that fighting them would be comparable to fighting the nation of Germany or Japan

If all we have to worry about (in terms of their numbers growing) are the ridiculous propaganda examples you give, then shouldn't we be debunking it rather than underpinning it?
 (Melatonin, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:45, , Reply)
This is a normal post There are not front lines everywhere (a bit like the dessert in 1942)
But there are definitive fronts in some places where they are fixed targets - like Aleppo.
Bleed them dry there, bombing their capital is going to do fuck all if history is to be trusted.

Debunking is hard, because their people (religious leaders etc) who are in the position to do so are doing the bunking.

In any case, it's complex, and I could 100% wrong and you 104% right and we would not know it.
Some English propaganda:
www.iraqinews.com
rudaw.net/english
www.almasdarnews.com/

Edit: I try to keep up with the Kurdish and Iraqi media but Google Hranslate often mashes articles into a unintelligible mush.
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 17:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post complex is certainly what it is
check these out as well, masterfull slapping down the nonsense that ISIL spout from learned religious types.
(for the sake of balance)

binbayyah.net/english/2014/09/24/fatwa-response-to-isis/
lettertobaghdadi.com/14/english-v14.pdf
 (Melatonin, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 17:30, , Reply)
This is a normal post Example of a battle map...
Some areas are very vague (large non man's land) but others are defined.
i1.wp.com/www.almasdarnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/11166097_10206751706412884_1658266943_n.jpg?resize=960%2C784
That's where tactical bombing would do the maximum damage for the least civilian casualties.

Edit:
Ever notice that when the Yemens fights the Saudi regular army, al-Qaeda "just happens" to be in the same general area.
Nothing to see there, move along, move along...
www.almanar.com.lb/english/wapadetails.php?eid=218392
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 17:42, , Reply)
This is a normal post So if not bombing
then... what? What's the alternative?

Doing nothing seems to have done nothing.
Diplomacy seems to have done nothing.
Sanctions seem to have done nothing.
Threats of intervention have done nothing.
And the shithole festers and the refugees keep arriving.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 12:20, , Reply)
This is a normal post But my point is - bombing will only exasperate the problem - but bringing in more recruits and make us a bigger target.
If we have to take military action, then at least troops on the ground where we have a chance of actually eliminating them accurately.

Also, freeze their assets, and access their computer systems.
 (The Tramp Surveyor, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 12:35, , Reply)
This is a normal post
Foreign troops arriving and telling people how to run their lives aren't going to be as welcome as you might think. Afghanistan and Iraq are the poster boys for exactly how that can pan out.

There's enough forces engaged on the ground at the moment. Let's act as air support for them and help them fight their own war rather than do it for them. Then by all means send peacekeepers in afterwards like we did in the Balkans.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:02, , Reply)
This is a normal post "freeze their assets, and access their computer systems."
That means sanctions against Saudi Arabian and Turkey...
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:23, , Reply)
This is a normal post Getting a bit tricky now
I say just bomb the rampaging beast in plain sight now, we can assess where it came from afterwards
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:26, , Reply)
This is a normal post Hear hear

(smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:30, , Reply)
This is a normal post Let's not bomb Syria but put troops on the ground?
That's not especially joined up thinking.
 (PhosphorBurnedEyes Swastika Shop opening here soon, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 23:54, , Reply)
This is a normal post How about:
Surround them. Declare a five mile DMZ around some part of Syria and denote it "ISISland". Let them get up to whatever horrible bastardry they want inside their lovely Caliphate. Let anyone who likes go in. Regular air drops of food and medical supplies. Burn anything - anything at all - that tries to get out. And if ISIS carry out an attack anywhere else in the world, reduce the entire place to a pool of radioactive glass.
 (SonofRojBlake, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 12:58, , Reply)
This is a normal post Neville Chamberlain?
Is that you? Guess not :)
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:24, , Reply)
This is a normal post IS would just stay safely hidden among the civilian population.

(I helped save b3ta! tickle I was away, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post I genuinely think propaganda and education is the strongest weapon here
Cue abuse
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:02, , Reply)
This is a normal post I agree
Ultimately its a battle of mindsets and that can only be won on a generational timescale. In the meantime though, you've got a problem that needs to be solved a lot quicker than that.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:10, , Reply)
This is a normal post which is what the secret services are doing a brilliant job of diffusing and preventing
The Paris horrors were obviously a terrible thing, but blowing up a country in wild retaliation will just result in more dead innocents and angry relatives.
A vicious circle that only benefits the governments selling guns and fear or the dictators causing the unrest that we fund in the first place.
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 14:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post On the long term; YES
But in the short term, the Kurds are fighting and dying right now.
I don't think ISIS would agree to a 3 to 5 year truce while we get this education thing going.
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 13:26, , Reply)
This is a normal post if the kurds are fighting and dying right now shouldn't the UK be pressuring it's NATO ally Turkey to stop bombing them?

(I helped save b3ta! tickle I was away, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post We try, but the Turkish prez is blind on a power trip.
So blind that he has kicked the sleeping bear: Russia.

In the balls.
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:32, , Reply)
This is a normal post what sanctions?
They're getting money and guns and people from somewhere. the money is Saudi money, the guns are Saudi guns and the porous border that people have entered Syria through is Turkey's. These are our allies in the region and they are arming and funding daesh.

What sort of military strategy ignores funding streams and supply lines?

The non-military options have barely been explored let alone tried.
 (I helped save b3ta! tickle I was away, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:12, , Reply)
This is a normal post Weren't you paying attention?
www.gov.uk/guidance/sanctions-on-syria

It's the first result on Google, but I'm sure you did your own research.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:30, , Reply)
This is a normal post I think Corbyn said we should arrest them
and then put them on trial for being very naughty.
You know, like they did for that Hussein chap.
 (I helped save b3ta! gaijintendo Regular Member, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 15:44, , Reply)
This is a normal post You know what, that's it
We should just arrange with the Syrian government to send a couple of Met Officers over there, bring them back, and put them on trial at Woolwich Crown Court. Easy.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 16:21, , Reply)
This is a normal post How do you arrest a crazy person with an explosive belt and the plunger in his hand trembling in anger at you?
Darts with sleep serum?
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 17:20, , Reply)
This is a normal post I am pretty sure most people being arrested don't want to be arrested
but maybe instead of Serum, put them to sleep with some kind of tedious petition?
 (I helped save b3ta! gaijintendo Regular Member, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 17:41, , Reply)
This is a normal post Hehehe
They are probably issuing a fatwa against this petition.

Right now.

It's THAT important.
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sat 28 Nov 2015, 17:44, , Reply)
This is a normal post Same way an American Cop arrests anyone
Shoot him seven times in the back
 (dyllon nice beaver., Sun 29 Nov 2015, 9:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post "Ya'all shhould have topped up ya'all's parking meter 5 minutes ago, I'm going to have to arrest ya'all"
"That's erm, felony parking meterin' and resitin' arrest... erm"
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
...
BANG
 (smellysamlyingcable Seaman on, Sun 29 Nov 2015, 9:32, , Reply)
This is a normal post 'ning

(I helped save b3ta! gaijintendo Regular Member, Sun 29 Nov 2015, 11:10, , Reply)