Scare the fat cats
My mate C's dad (no, seriously) was an engineer at a car company whose name rhymes with floored and in his spare time he used to tinker with car engines.

After whiling away a quiet weekend in the garden shed in the early 70's, he had a brainwave which he thought would make him a tidy sum. By the next week he had done a patent application and went to work with his plans to show his bosses. Who he was sure would be as happy as a pack of dogs in a tail factory.

He had actually designed one of the early, very lean burn engines that would get a light year per gallon or something stupid and wanted the company to use them in their cars.

He then stood back to enjoy the standing ovation, which infact never came. The suits did not seem impressed and said that they would "consider it" and went away mumbling.

A few days later he got a visit from a very expensive looking lawyer saying that he represented something called OPEC and would love to buy the patent. He then passed over a business card with a number on that looked like a telepnone number but turned out to be the offer. He accepted on the spot.

A few moths later C's dad called the lawyer form his new mansion and asked if they needed any help making the engines. He replied no thanks and was never heard from again.

It turns out that the oil companies had bought his patent so they could bury it. Very much like the ark of the covenant at the end of Indiana Jones, so it could never be used. Coincidentally, this was right before the fuel prices shot up causing something of an economic crisis.

So basically he got rich inventing something that nobody ever used.
Genius.

Edit: For a similar case of the car and oil lobby working together see "Who killed the electric car?" and the case of NiMH batteries that were supposed to improve hybrid cars. The oil companies bought the patent and made the license to build them so expensive that they were effectivley buried.
(Bo Nidle Coming back in from the cold., Sat 2 Aug 2008, 13:24, 19 replies)

Yup
This sort of thing happens all the bloody time and is absolutely atrocious, but hey, at least they paid him more than tuppence ha'penny for it.
(Frozen_Banana Shaved against the grain; thoroughly unrewarding., Sat 2 Aug 2008, 14:35, closed)

Yeah, Right
.
So he patented the design, so the design is available from the Patent Office.

This is utter,utter bullshit.
( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Sat 2 Aug 2008, 14:38, closed)

So..
Ford have an interest in making inefficient cars? I'm guessing your friend is touting this ludicrous story around as a cover for why his dad really got rich or somesuch. There might be a bit of chinese whispers going round too.
(lost, Sat 2 Aug 2008, 14:46, closed)

In defence of the original post
and partially my post above.
I have heard a number of cases of this, and I'll look for more, to see if they're actually legit (yeah, I agreed on poor contextual knowledge, oh well, it's only the internets)

But it's not Ford and whatnot wanting to make inefficient cars; it's men such as this one:
www.abc.net.au/reslib/200710/r195614_743525.jpg
who want inefficient cars made.
This man's done very well for himself living above an ancient ocean full of sludgy fish remains.
(Frozen_Banana Shaved against the grain; thoroughly unrewarding., Sat 2 Aug 2008, 14:55, closed)

While
you're at it, look at Peak Oil as well. Oil is running out very,very fast.

Anyone who can invent a more efficient engine would make BILLIONS as every car manufacturer on the planet would be queuing up to license the rights to use it. A car that uses less petrol without sacrificing power would make the manufacturer, instantly, the worlds number one.

The idea that Ford would ignore the invention and then pass on the details to OPEC is just too ridiculous for words. They'd be giving up a competitive advantage that would put almost every other car maker out of buisiness.

Cheers
( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Sat 2 Aug 2008, 15:05, closed)

Hmmm
I do know that the Arab Emirates are built upon some very dodgy trading. A friend spent a month living in Abu Dhabi and met quite a few shady types in his capacity as an airline pilot. The place is a giant shopping mall in the desert, dripping with gold and oil. His internet connection was watched and he was scared to go to a bar or venture much beyond his hotel room. Then George Bush arrived for a few days and the place went nuts - guns and helicopters everywhere.
(lost, Sat 2 Aug 2008, 15:10, closed)

It's a myth
that oil is running out very fast. When they were moaning in the 80s and 90s about only having 50 years oil supply left, they were only counting what was viable to extract at the current market value of oil. In recent years many more oil reserves have been found, and the price of oil has risen to the extent that many more known reserves are viable. For example, it is now economically viable to extract the oil from tar sands in Alberta, which has more oil than Saudi Arabia
( greedyostrich Cheese is evil! Cheddar is VOODOO!, Sat 2 Aug 2008, 15:11, closed)

But Legless makes good sense
it's hard to imagine such an invention being swept under the carpet like that.
(lost, Sat 2 Aug 2008, 15:12, closed)

Also
even if reserves were running out, oil companies are driven by greed, and would much rather maximize the price of oil by driving up use than make it last longer by reducing use and making less profit.
( greedyostrich Cheese is evil! Cheddar is VOODOO!, Sat 2 Aug 2008, 15:12, closed)

Ah..
The Tar Sands of Alberta.

But do you know that it costs the energy equivalent of three barrels of oil to get one out?

Extracting oil from tar sands is massively energy intensive. You have to heat and melt the shit to get anywhere near it.

Peak Oil is about 2 years away. You're already feeling the first effect. The current oil price is $125 a barrel. It was over $140 a few weeks ago. A year ago it was around $80.

You'll see oil hit $200 a barrel within a year to eighteen months.

When that feeds through to the pumps you're looking at a three-fold price increase.

Then, as people get used to not using their cars so much, it'll fall back a bit. Probably to around $150 or so.


Just watch. And rip the piss out of me if I'm wrong.

Cheers
( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Sat 2 Aug 2008, 15:40, closed)

Oil will never reach $200 a barrel
It'll be in Euros a barrel way before that. Fuck the US that's what I say, fucking parasites...

[they invaded IRAQ when Sadam started trading in Euros, that lasted 7 years until the dollar finally buckled under pressure from China who have more dollars than the Federal reserve. If they think they can try it again in IRAN they must think we were born yesterday]

..apparantly.
( buffet_the_appetite_slayer ٩(●̮̃•)۶ jacked in to the ICE on, Sat 2 Aug 2008, 15:48, closed)

He is rich and thats what they tell people.
From what I hear the engine wasn't perfect, just efficient. At the time oil prices were cheap and no one gave a rats about efficiency. The returns wouldn't have been worth changing the factories for. Car companies have known for a long time that they could make their cars more efficient and less polluting, but up until recently there's just not been the demand for it.
I don't have any particular trouble imagining the car and the oil industry in bed together, as they both do well from each other.

Companies that own patents charge a license fee to other companies that want to make the product. By making the license fee extortionate you effectivley make it unprofitable to make the thing.

BTW C himself now also works at ford thanks to his dads contacts.
(Bo Nidle Coming back in from the cold., Sat 2 Aug 2008, 16:23, closed)

I remember my old Physics teacher telling us a similar story once
...but in his version, his mate sold the patent on a 'percentage of sales' basis, assuming that when they made millions, and he was getting a few quid per engine manufactured, he'd be quids in. Not so. I can't decide whether I thinks it's truth or bollox though.
(jabboy, Sat 2 Aug 2008, 17:21, closed)

Oh FFS
When even snopes throws the BS flag, you know you're talking nonsense.

www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp

Oh, but it's true?

Then what's the inventor's name?
What else has he invented?
What's the patent number?
Where's the copy of his patent application?

Didn't think so.
(not here, Sat 2 Aug 2008, 20:17, closed)

Bollocks
The parameters that govern internal combustion engine efficiency are very well understood and have been for about 80 years.

The dominant factor is compression ratio - compare and contrast diesel efficiency (@ 22:1) with a lean-burn petrol engine (@ 12:1). NB, you can't increase a petrol engine's compression ratio very much or you get preignition and a net loss of power...

So here we are: Utter, utter lies and I pity you for:

a) Believeing said lies.

b) Reproducing them here.

or...

c) Just telling a bullshit story.
(apologies_for_length, Sat 2 Aug 2008, 22:17, closed)

Oh FFS
Fine my source may not have been entirely reliable but I thought it was a good story and not that far fetched.

I'll just stick to toturing kittens and wiping my arse with pictures of Maddie, seems less controversial.
(Bo Nidle Coming back in from the cold., Sat 2 Aug 2008, 23:25, closed)

Yup...
Bunch of old shit alright.
(powervator and NONE SHALL PASS, Sun 3 Aug 2008, 23:24, closed)

Oil
As Legless says, there's oil and then there's oil... It's relatively "sweet" crude that's required in order to be refined into petrol, so the oil tar sands in Canada would need significant refining to turn them into petrol or diesel.

Lets have a look at what we know shall we?

The USA reached "Peak Oil" - i.e. the rate at which demand exceeded domestic supply of oil - in 1971. The UK followed in 2004. The worldwide "Peak Oil" has been calculated to occur at any point between 1995 and 2015. At this point, the global demand for oil will exceed the ability of supply. And what happens with any commodity where demand exceeds supply? It goes up in value.

Now OPEC members have been seen to suddenly (and substantially) revise estimates of their reserves. In 1980, Abu Dhabi claimed to have reserves of 28bn barrels. In 1988 they claimed to have reserves of 91bn barrels. Likewise Saudi Arabia has gone from 163bn to 258bn barrels in reserve between 1980 and 1990.

Why? No substantial discoveries of new fields have taken place. Indeed, Dr. Ali Samsam Bakhtiari, a former senior executive of the National Iranian Oil Company, has stated unequivocally that OPEC's oil reserves (notably Iran's) are grossly overstated. In an interview to Bloomberg in July 2006, he stated that world oil production is now at its peak and predicted that it will fall 32% by 2020.

Oil itself needs some considerable refining before you can pour it in your tank. Tar sands need significantly more expensive refining than the stuff that pours out of the North Sea, which will push its production price up even further.

"So why not pump out more oil then?" I hear you ask.

Simple. Because it takes between 10-20 years to design and build a new oil refinery and production facility. Refineries are operating at peak, so even if you pumped more oil out of the ground, the bottleneck is at the refineries themselves.

In conclusion, we're in deep shit. Governments by and large - in Europe and the USA in particular - have been keen to sit back, rake in the "Green Taxes" and do sweet nothing to invest in renewable energy. Of the "Green Tax" revenue claimed by the British government in 2007, less than 5% will be spent on renewable investment. The rest goes elsewhere - no prizes for guessing where.

Unfortunately, most of the ministers who saw this coming are now senile, bedridden or dead. Or have been elected to the EU.

In short, the politicians have cocked it right up, in such an epic fashion that we'll be paying the price for decades yet. Don't trust the politicians either, none of them took climate change seriously until someone worked out how to make pots of money out of it.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 4 Aug 2008, 11:42, closed)

Oh dear....
Anyone want to postulate any other Oil Corporation myths? The real stuff is far more entertaining. How about governments turning down huge carbon capture projects funded by Oil Company R&D for example:

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2104914,00.html
(Oil Slick, Mon 4 Aug 2008, 22:52, closed)