artillery,eh?me pa's ex RN, Chief Petty Officer Sellick. i've always had a fear that somehow or other i'm going to end up in the forces with no idea how the hell i got there.
(
Tom OBedlam I have control of a tank,
Wed 21 May 2008, 1:31,
archived)
All my familyhave been RN for generations. I joined too as weapons engineering artificer but an unfortunate incident in training led to me leaving. I joined the army later out of a need to get my own back.
( Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice,
Wed 21 May 2008, 1:33,
archived)
yeah i think the family is 4th generation RN or something like thati don't think my fears of ever ending up in the forces have any foundation as i don't even like to be asked to empty the bins let alone obey orders
( Tom OBedlam I have control of a tank,
Wed 21 May 2008, 1:39,
archived)
Please join the Navyplease. It will make the best man of you that you could ever become.
You don't have to stay long, 5 years will change your life.
Only join the army if you want to end up fucked up.
(You don't have to stay long, 5 years will change your life.
Only join the army if you want to end up fucked up.
Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice,
Wed 21 May 2008, 1:41,
archived)
yeah no power on earth would land me in the army.i'm too... sensitive :)
my main motivation to join (if i ever do) would be to prove my point that national service should be reintroduced.
(my main motivation to join (if i ever do) would be to prove my point that national service should be reintroduced.
Tom OBedlam I have control of a tank,
Wed 21 May 2008, 1:49,
archived)
You have no idea how much that makes me want to hurt you...And I can't really be bothered to type out an arguement as to why bringing back national service would be a pointless and hollow gesture, but I will still pose this question.
Presumably women would have to do it too?
(,
Wed 21 May 2008, 2:03,
archived)
Presumably women would have to do it too?
of course they bloody shouldnational service shouldn't be just military, in germany you can join one of the emergency services instead. sounds bloody tip top to me
( Tom OBedlam I have control of a tank,
Wed 21 May 2008, 2:08,
archived)
In Italy you have the choice of joining the police to my memory, or the Carabinieri I should say.Call me old fashioned, but somehow the idea of having a vocational tax on my very existence just doesn't gel that well with me.
Especially when it's such an unnecessary one such as National Service where Britain already has a nuclear deterrent based military and doesn't have any actual justified need for the extra personnelle.
Much like the government forcing people to stay on into higher education. Whether or not a standardised system of education is a good thing, forcing people to conform to arbitary principles or ideals is just bunk. Just because something is state ordained or cemented in tradition doesn't make it right, good or even effective, and I think a paternalistic approach to try to curb behaviour is a step back for a permissive society.
(,
Wed 21 May 2008, 2:19,
archived)
Especially when it's such an unnecessary one such as National Service where Britain already has a nuclear deterrent based military and doesn't have any actual justified need for the extra personnelle.
Much like the government forcing people to stay on into higher education. Whether or not a standardised system of education is a good thing, forcing people to conform to arbitary principles or ideals is just bunk. Just because something is state ordained or cemented in tradition doesn't make it right, good or even effective, and I think a paternalistic approach to try to curb behaviour is a step back for a permissive society.
its not about extra personel or in any way bulking the armysuch a thing would be absurd. my reasoning for reintroducing national service is that people need discipline. as much as it hurts me to say it, we do. i'm the last person who wants to join any national force but i would be willing to give up my own priveleges for one year in the name of social cohesion and curbing the thuggish, nihilistic trend in the country.
( Tom OBedlam I have control of a tank,
Wed 21 May 2008, 2:26,
archived)
This isn't just about giving up my own privedges, this is about not omitting to a system which gives out doctrinal values like they are sweets.No system of education, no view on war or the military, no form of government can ever be correct; they can rarely even balance all the wants and woes of the people, and even then when they do the sheer selfish nature of people makes them refute equality because it means they have to pay more taxes or give money to some social strata they dislike.
Introducing false certainties and subjective values to give people discipline and also a sense of belonging is not a solution, the reason people have now begun reacting and acting like this is the state of knowledge and the world itself. While years ago you could happily ebb by with whatever certainties of patriotism, religion or citizenship you had been fed, now people are in a position that they know those old certainties are not objective and that nothing is really true. And so they feel lost.
This however is not a reason to reintroduce more false certainties just to reassure people and give them something to hold onto, this is a time to seriously think about the world and the interactions between so many people's different views and actions and try to work out if there really is any way to weigh things up. If there is any such thing as a good or better result to aim for, and more importantly if it is attainable. And at least without subjective rights and wrongs government would be able to go on no longer convinced that it was doing the right thing, regardless of the subtlties of the effect.
(,
Wed 21 May 2008, 2:44,
archived)
Introducing false certainties and subjective values to give people discipline and also a sense of belonging is not a solution, the reason people have now begun reacting and acting like this is the state of knowledge and the world itself. While years ago you could happily ebb by with whatever certainties of patriotism, religion or citizenship you had been fed, now people are in a position that they know those old certainties are not objective and that nothing is really true. And so they feel lost.
This however is not a reason to reintroduce more false certainties just to reassure people and give them something to hold onto, this is a time to seriously think about the world and the interactions between so many people's different views and actions and try to work out if there really is any way to weigh things up. If there is any such thing as a good or better result to aim for, and more importantly if it is attainable. And at least without subjective rights and wrongs government would be able to go on no longer convinced that it was doing the right thing, regardless of the subtlties of the effect.
this seems very idealistic.there is no better world for us all to strive for, thats the main lesson of history surely? people need false constructs and lies, like the lie of the state or of society. we have to have these fictions so the world is not so scary. people should believe in those lies so the system works. unless you think that we can live in an anarchist utopia with flowers in our hair. the system has to work so as many people as possible can survive one day to the next.
sorry this is taking so long to write with so little substance but i'm trying to write an essay on hebrew food laws
the reason why the west is suffering so badly from internal strife is because nihilism has struck us all so horribly. everyone is disaffected and depressed, thats why we are stagnating, no one cares about anything any more. at least when we believed the lies of god and country we achieved things. i think i'd be less likely to waste entire days sitting in front of a computer or the TV if i felt my life had any purpose
(sorry this is taking so long to write with so little substance but i'm trying to write an essay on hebrew food laws
the reason why the west is suffering so badly from internal strife is because nihilism has struck us all so horribly. everyone is disaffected and depressed, thats why we are stagnating, no one cares about anything any more. at least when we believed the lies of god and country we achieved things. i think i'd be less likely to waste entire days sitting in front of a computer or the TV if i felt my life had any purpose
Tom OBedlam I have control of a tank,
Wed 21 May 2008, 3:04,
archived)
The false constructs are the ones which are telling us that there is a better world to strive for, and to follow it. So I don't see how you can claim that I am being both nihilistic and idealistic at the same time.What tells us that people need false constructs? Experience? Maybe, but then has anyone ever made a concerted effort to actually think about the possibility of a government or state founded on no principles or rather the principles that they will try to think about how they actually effect the world and whether it's positive or negative. Even then are you saying that the status of human civilisation and thought will never adapt or evolve, that we are mentally exactly the same as we were back when we were hunting and living in caves. I can see that humans don't like the idea of a lack of meaning and that they have to cling to false hopes, but I also see that humans see the need to have land wars over resources that technically don't belong to anyone; just because it's inevitable due to how humans act, doesn't mean it's necessary or a given that should not be thought or developed around.
I don't think people really are as disaffected as you make out, not from my eyes anyway. I constantly see people believing in their own certainties, their own ways of elevating themselves and justifying their lives. Whether it's the religious, the life's a bitch and then you die brigade, even the various alternative lifestyle types. They all believe their own hype and mould their own fantastical beliefs to insane levels where they will argue and fight over their whimsy quite easily.
Whether there's any more of a problem with disillusionment and violent abandoned men is hard to tell either, it's a sheer function of the media now that if anything happens that will set someone off then it will be in the papers/news. 30 or 40 years ago there may well have been a vast world out there that people could have got annoyed at if they only knew it existed. And I really need to go to bed now.
(,
Wed 21 May 2008, 3:28,
archived)
I don't think people really are as disaffected as you make out, not from my eyes anyway. I constantly see people believing in their own certainties, their own ways of elevating themselves and justifying their lives. Whether it's the religious, the life's a bitch and then you die brigade, even the various alternative lifestyle types. They all believe their own hype and mould their own fantastical beliefs to insane levels where they will argue and fight over their whimsy quite easily.
Whether there's any more of a problem with disillusionment and violent abandoned men is hard to tell either, it's a sheer function of the media now that if anything happens that will set someone off then it will be in the papers/news. 30 or 40 years ago there may well have been a vast world out there that people could have got annoyed at if they only knew it existed. And I really need to go to bed now.
sleep welli'll gaz you a response to this tomorrow. i really need to finish this essay.
night man
(night man
Tom OBedlam I have control of a tank,
Wed 21 May 2008, 3:36,
archived)