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# +5 points for cider.
(I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Fri 18 Dec 2009, 21:00, archived)
# -10 points for it being shit strongbow
For a decent cider try Westons or Stowford Press
(I helped save b3ta! CanonCaliber A big bore, Fri 18 Dec 2009, 21:22, archived)