Not to appear needlessly argumentative, but
your extension of my point is quite simplistic in itself.
"Surely they don't put on an extra person for one more hour, so I doubt it will have any affect on jobs."
No. In a moderately busy bar or club that has, let's say, just two bars on its premises. Now, let's say in that last hour, each individual bar sells just one single drink at about €5 every 10 minutes - unlikely coming up to closing time, but hey, I'm being cautious - that's €60 across the premises gone, give or take... That's a part time staff member's pay for the night. Gone. Even with a very conservative scenario forecast.
"Police have to be on shift an hour later"
Police here work night shifts, and are therefore working anyway. So no costs saved there either.
I'll concede that there are extra social factors that are to be considered, and of course, residential areas must be put at the forefront of such considerations. However, my point was made exclusively in terms of the economics of the situation, however 'shallow' it made my understanding of certain social complexities appear. And my point was also made exclusively in terms of Galway city.
I know this city. It is very dependent on its bar trade and its reputation as a 'good place to go out'. As multinational employers cut jobs here left, right and centre... We should be protecting the ones we have control of, not endangering them. And shallow though they may be, the simple mathematics of my scenario above can't really be argued with. I know that too because I worked in bars for years, and saw people lose their jobs over losses of similar amounts.
They are simple, undoubtedly, but my objections are informed. I'm talking about people potentially losing their jobs... Not writing a sociology essay.
(, Wed 15 Aug 2012, 2:44, Reply)
And if you disagree, cool :)
Because that's my other bugbear of this whole thing. The lack of discourse. People involved weren't asked. It was just decided.
Again, a possibly simplistic outlook when discussing politics and law. However, I choose to cling to any naivety I have left in me when engaged in such discussion :)
(, Wed 15 Aug 2012, 3:05, Reply)
When the pubs in our town were allowed to open later they didn't hire extra staff
I doubt closing an hour early will mean they need to sack someone, there will still be the closing time rush on the bar. Pub may make less money but it won't be that much less, they will pay an hours less wages, power, etc.
(
Peej, Wed 15 Aug 2012, 7:58,
Reply)
hi rev,
it is the cascade of assumptions that I find simplistic. open more hours = more money which equals more jobs and will be better for the economy and is therefore good for ireland. each one of these assumptions could be contested.
to give you an example, let's assume you're right about the first point, and pubs make a lot more money as people binge in the final hour:
where does this money come from? it comes from students and locals and tourists, and is concentrated in hands of the pub owner who makes additional profit. Do these consumers have endless money to extract, or would they have spread this money more evenly around the local economy if they didn't spend it at the pub? How likely is it that the cafe owner will see them buying a coffee in the morning if they spent a pile of money at 2am. Will they still be able to afford that trip to the Aran islands at the end of the week, or buy that hand knit jumper. How vulnerable are the pub business in Galway and the multinational breweries compared to all the other business where the money might elsewhere have been spent and the makers of tat that supply them?
In Australia, a phenomenon called the Pokies effect has been studied. When poker machines (fruit machines) were legalised for pubs, the pubs heavily invested in them, buying 100 or more for each pub. They made big profits for the pubs, and the govenrment got good tax revenue from each pub. However what people found was that many people were spending all their spendable income in one place, and this was killing the local businesses of the town. The overall effect was reduced tax for the government and less jobs from those towns that had a pub with pokies. I'm not suggesting that the change in galway trading hours will have such a drastic effect, but I repeat that such assumptions of "good for the economy" are incredibly simplistic.
I would suggest that you are being dishonest. You want to drink later and resent being unable to, but don't feel this is a persuasive argument so you pretend instead to be concerned with the irish economy, a general source of anxiety for many people and an argument which you think will have greater weight, by creating a loose but unsubstantiated chain of assumptions whereby the opening hours of galway pubs are connected to the fortunes of Ireland.
(
cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 15 Aug 2012, 11:08,
Reply)
You make a few valid points...
And perhaps I should have been more specific when I mentioned other local businesses. Sorry, it was late :) I was speaking about businesses such as taxi cab firms (most of which are in trouble due to an explosion in taxi licenses around the city when the legislation in this area was changed), local fast food places that open late, late night cafes... Businesses that have a clear, vested interest in the pub trade. An hour less for pubs is an hour less for them. Basic arithmetic that could cause them problems financially. Granted, it's possible that it may not, but I'm saying why risk it?
I have no issue with you contesting my assumptions. If anything, I welcome it. I don't claim to be an expert on the economy. I was only speaking specifically about Galway and jobs in the bar trade. (Yes, I opened it up with mentions of Irishness and "myopic fucknuggets", but that was an attempt at angry humour. You may not have bitten, but hey, I'm not that funny.)
I have been speaking to friends of mine who work in the bar trade; bar staff, bar managers, DJs and security staff, and they are all genuinely worried about what this could mean to their livelihood... And their voices should be listened to. Hence, why I put up the link to the petition.
What I do take issue with is you calling me dishonest... That I "pretend" to be concerned about the economy because I just want to drink later. Patronising at best, insulting at worst. I am concerned about the economy. Very concerned. Many friends and family members have been directly affected by the recession... Money and jobs lost, lives altered. I've lost substantial hours in my job myself. Less money for bills, food, rent... You know, when I've not blown it all in anxious pursuit of a pint of that sweet 2am nectar.
Many Irish people feel a sense of desperation due to the financial mire this country finds itself in. There is a helplessness that permeates deep, and it will take years to fade. With this enforcement of different closing times, I saw friends - and strangers - become genuinely concerned about their jobs. More recruits to a hemorrhaging group, city and country wide. With this petition, I saw a chance to help out, in however minuscule a way.
You may not agree. And that's totally fine. I actually enjoy discussions like these. They should be a vital cog in how society works, but very often are not... At the same time though, show some respect in said discussions, and please don't label me "dishonest".
And as for "assumptions" go, how do you even know I drink?
(, Wed 15 Aug 2012, 13:17, Reply)