I think you're missing the point...
It doesn't matter whether it's the MoD, MI5, The Illuminati, The Queen, or God - if 95% of the populace are starving, there is no authority figure in existence (be it legitimate, elected, or a shadow conspiracy) that will prevent the pack mentality taking over.

Communism is a nice idea for governments - it subjugates the individual rights and freedoms in deference to the good of the "state", but even Marx himself said this was an unrealisitc ideal. The fact is that if you put two workers in a field and tell them to dig, on the promise of an equal share of food for all, one will work hard, the other will bunk off for a smoke and, after a couple of weeks the hard-worker will get resentful of the fact the slacker also gets his meal provided when he's done less work.

The fact is that we are nothing but monkeys with ideas above our station and anyone taking the piss, or acting too far outside the group consensus (either at the top or the bottom of the hierarchy) will get it's head bashed in, or poo thrown at it. Or, in humans, a bloody revolution/ousted at the next election/total refusal to co-operate and recognise the authority being claimed.

At that point, unless you are strong enough to take on the entire populace in single combat and win, I can guarantee the general consensus will win. After all, if we all say "sod the banks, we're keeping our homes and you can whistle for the mortgage after the way you bankers have screwed us all over", who exactly is going to enforce the law? The police? Nope - the fact is that whilst there might be 60,000 policemen, they are outnumbered 10,000 to 1 and, at the end of the day, unless they honestly believe in what they are doing, they won't enforce it. Not only that, but any government only has authority as long as we, the people, endorse it. Same for the economic system - what I want in return for my time at work is food, shelter and goods. Money is a myth that acts as a promissory note. I could, under UK law, cessate from the government, the laws and the authority of the crown and live as a free man if the United Kingdom. I wouldn't pay taxe, be liable for any law other than theft assualt or murder and I'd be alloted my choice of land on which to live and farm without charge. There is nothing the legal system, the state or the civil service can do about this, as it is part of the Magna Carta and to deny me this right would be to admit that they do not value the fundamental tenets of law and order - the sole things keeping them in power.

The fact is that traffic wardens becoming police officers is still pissing in the wind if society breaks down. All it is there to do is fill the cracks if we have no power for a week (I believe it was proved that modern society breaks down to survival of the fittest in something like 72 hours without power and running water, given the experiences suffered in New york in the 1970s, etc).

You are attributing far too much power to these bodies - the fact is that very quickly Armies would mutiny, police would disappear and there would be no "society" outside of extended family groups, as we all fight for our territory, food and resources. You only have to look at Africa, where after the stabilising effect of a colonial ruler is removed, countries rapidly breakdown into lawlessness and tribal conflict based on large extended family groups trying to grab the best of the spoils.
(Chad, Wed 8 Oct 2008, 15:24, 1 reply)

thats great
but here's the rub

try convincing a fractured I'm-all-right-jack-society to co ordinate themsleves and work together in the way you describe

and there will be large groups who are either submissive to authority aswell as others who stay on the sidelines hoping they can ride the problem so long as they don't get involved hoping others will sort it out for them

the sad fact is most people in this system don't lift a finger until things affect them personally - as Bertrand Russell predicted with his educational models, to come back to my original post

it's why they needed to attack the family to fracture society as this is the basic tribe they needed to destroy - with an egocentric population the government can impose itself most effectively - as they tend not to cluster together in cohesive groups looking out for each other when individual members are attacked

alot of the counter culture stuff used to create tension and divison between the generations to break the family unit were from above - not the grass roots - Timothy Leary, was CIA funded, like Gloria Steinem and her radical 60s feminist magazine
(The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Wed 8 Oct 2008, 15:46, closed)