not only that..
but the person/people at the top are more reliant on those at the bottom of the heap than vice versa.

Your feudal lord/billionaire/king cannot farm all the land, run all the factories, etc, themselves, whereas the general populace has the ability to fend for itself. Left to their own devices, people will work with their skills and trade goods and services (I'll scratch your back...", etc) - whereas a king can only rule and is thus useless without people to rule.

In fact, until the 20th century, most wars were between armed professional armies that could die without leaving the farms untended, the cattle unmilked, etc.
(Chad, Wed 8 Oct 2008, 15:30, 1 reply)

no doubt they still need us - but not in the numbers as before with the rise of automation and technology - however they still need a percentage (500 million is the number quoted in some circles as the amount the population needs to be reduced to)- hence the need for tighter controls and mechanisms to punish us should we step out of line - do you really believe ID cards are for our own safety? (the safety line has been used through the ages to hoodwink the population into accepting greater liberty restrictions)

ex politician and film producer Aaron Russo famously reported a converstion he had with a member of these foundations Nick Rockefeller, whom he was freinds with at the time - and was told by him that the end goal is to get everyone chipped - all credits and id on this chip - so if anyone protests or disagrees they threaten to switch the chip off
why take my word for it? - here/'s the link fo him saying it.......
LINK

incidentally Quigley stated that you could achieve more radical changes in society with 5 years of war than through 50 years of peacetime - after the 1st WW they tried to draft in the League fo Nations for a unified Europe which they have succeeded in doing - with North American Union next (2012) after their econmic war Jaques Atalli wrote about 15 years ago - all pushed by the foundations I mention above

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(The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Wed 8 Oct 2008, 16:02, closed)

No ID cards aren't for our own good...
nor are speed cameras, or half the other ludicrous stealth taxes and laws. We live in a society where the PC hairy-armit brigade are calling the shots and, of course, they have de-valued education and made University the presever of the rich idiot, as opposed to the gifted intellectual, so they can declare open war on the middle class and then say "we won't listen to you, you're a criminal because you have a speeding ticket and we're much cleverer than you, because we went to public school and Oxford" to 90% of the populace. It doesn't get past the fact that such policies would not have gotten anywhere if we hadn't had a lazy selfish underclass of scum breeding like rabbits that are happy to live like parasites. If we had a working class that worked, as opposed to the chavs we are lumbered with, then maybe we might have some pride in ourselves and we might also have avoided the rampant over-borrowing made by those who could never afford to pay it back, thus leading to the financial quagmire we are now in.

Instead we have a country where you'll live a better lifestyle if you scrounge off the state, as you'll be housed, fed and given money, your kids will be clothed and you have zero responsibility, whereas if you work hard, own your own home and try to live decently, you'll be taxed into the next millenium by a government which has still not escaped it's class-war socialist roots and which does it's best to bolster the benefit culture at the expense of Middle England. Why? Because those on benefits tended in the past to vote Labour as it meant more dole cheques and no requirement to go to work.

However, the rampant mis-management of the Economy, the disastrous home and foreign policies and the grass roots hatred of the thought-control Health and Safety culture, that Labour loves so dearly, have all conspired to ensure that the odds on Labour staying in power are equivalent to Elvis being found alive on Mars.

Yes, there is always a non-elected permanent Civil Service, but calling that a "Shadow Government" is ridiculous - with them, you wouldn't have your bins emptied, roads repaired, schools run, etc - the Civil Service takes charge of the pragmatic things required to run a country - collection of taxes, running of infrastructure, etc. The elected government controls policy, but you wouldn't expect the Prime Minister to go around collecting VAT, etc.

Look, if you go to Public School (Eton, Harrow, etc), on to Oxford or Cambrige and in to business or the Civil Service, you will always look favourably on those of a similar nature - you're similar people, so you know you can work together in accord. Having said that, it's no different to saying that a White Christian would struggle to find work in a Halal butcher's shop if there were Asian Muslims applying for the job, too - most business decisions are made by a relatively small number of people, all of whom tend to know one another. If you're a decent barrister, the odds are you went to Oxford, if you are a senior civil servant, you'd have been Public School educated and the reason for this is simply because that education grooms a person to fit those roles well. It's not a conspiracy, it's simply a case of like-minded people tending to have a similar viewpoint.

After all, can you imagine how far in the shit we'd be if John Prescott, not Blair or Brown, had been PM for 10 years? Or if, when you rang the council to complain about your bins not being collected, the person at the other end of the line told you to "fuck off before I blade you for disrespecting me, innit, blud"?

Morons don't get made into CEOs or government ministers. There are very few top class educational establishments, so those at the top, by default, tend to know each other, or of each other, or at least move in the same circles. It's like saying it's a conspiracy because most technology/computer/software breakthroughs come out of Silicon Valley, whereas it was more a case of being a good location for those types of businesses and then more springing up as the talent migrated to where the work was.

Your behaviour is *always* your choice, regardless of who is in power, or what is on TV, etc. To blame the woes of society on a secret society is just another way of saying "it's not our fault we screwed up/letc the kids get obese/can't read/prefer to live on the dole than work" - another course of action would be to take the Daily Mail tack and blame all our woes on immigrants, but the truth is that if you are an adult of sound mind, any action you take is directly, 100%, your responsibility.
(Chad, Thu 9 Oct 2008, 11:52, closed)

I'd agree with most of that
but its like someone said earlier about teh financial crisis being caused by city wide boys and not some 'shadowy elite'

the fact the RIFR works behind the scenes to get things done is something not said by the likes of me - but official historians for the org like Quigley

yep, the city wide boys caused the financial troubles but bacause they operated in an unregulated arena created by those above them - despite the seeming chaos - along with the social elitism you mention - it all still exists within a created system at the higher level - despite the seemingly random and free movement which exists within the convines of it

do you think its odd the likes of Jacques Attalli, presidential adviser, talked of the tanking of the US economy 15 years ago (book: Millenium: winners and losers )as a step toward the formation of the North American Union in 2012 - and the rise of China?

there are those that steer the ship , and there's those that live on deck - despite the freedom of choosing deckchairs, lounging around and all the other randomness - they still exist on a ship streerd by a smaller group

these are the foundations I'm talking about , as others have talked about

for example look at the private families that own the fed reserve and look into the cause of the 30s depression - you will see how precisely ochestrated and contrived it was to consolidate greater ownership of property and greater wealth into fewer hands (the crucial timings of the calling of the loans, the release of currency to devalue it, the run on th ebanks, gold act etc - all detailed ion an excellent book by G Edward Griffin called Creature From Jekyll Island uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWKlz2Z4Nlo )

you only realise the narrow confines of how created and contrived this system is (with all teh activity operating within it you mention above) once you deconstruct it - and realise it's one big business plan

they create the conditions for the chaos to occur in - with their 'solution' waiting in the wings

we will have hyper-inflation next year (a consequence of all the money they are pumping into the system right now) followed by their 'proposed solution' - wait for it



edit: did you watch the link? I think it's only about 3 mins long
(The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Thu 9 Oct 2008, 12:08, closed)