Using internal evidence as evidence is circularOutwith the Gospels there is no evidence that Jesus started Christianity. There's basically none that *Paul* started Christianity, but at least his Epistles are attested earlier than the Gospels, and were very influential.
We know the early Church fathers existed, and we know that they all had different beliefs. That's attested even three hundred years later when Constantine was pushing for a unified dogma, and it's attested by the Epistles which discuss theological differences with other Christian leaders.
'Jesus' isn't actually attested outside of the dogma. 'Paul', whatever the writer of the bulk of the Epistles attributed to him may have been called (and it seems a consensus that the bulk of them were written by a single man), *is*, by dint of the writings he left behind.
Sorry, but 'Paul' has a stronger claim than 'Jesus'.
The alternative is that I'll accept, on the evidence of the writings 'he' left behind, that Moses was the founding father of Judaism. Hell, the Pentateuch is attributed to him, I reckon he's got an even better claim than Jesus! (There is zero proof that Moses existed, either, and it seems frankly unlikely. Likewise Abraham, Isaac, Joseph et. al. Even Solomon and David are on shaky ground.)
(We know the early Church fathers existed, and we know that they all had different beliefs. That's attested even three hundred years later when Constantine was pushing for a unified dogma, and it's attested by the Epistles which discuss theological differences with other Christian leaders.
'Jesus' isn't actually attested outside of the dogma. 'Paul', whatever the writer of the bulk of the Epistles attributed to him may have been called (and it seems a consensus that the bulk of them were written by a single man), *is*, by dint of the writings he left behind.
Sorry, but 'Paul' has a stronger claim than 'Jesus'.
The alternative is that I'll accept, on the evidence of the writings 'he' left behind, that Moses was the founding father of Judaism. Hell, the Pentateuch is attributed to him, I reckon he's got an even better claim than Jesus! (There is zero proof that Moses existed, either, and it seems frankly unlikely. Likewise Abraham, Isaac, Joseph et. al. Even Solomon and David are on shaky ground.)
boris the spider,
Mon 17 Oct 2011, 20:43,
archived)