First of all,I'm not saying it's ok to kill stuff.
But you see, I am a conscious being. I mind dying and pain and such.
Fish don't.
That's my whole point.
Whether or not fish have the right to live is really a whole different issue that really has nothing to do with the argument I'm making. 'rights' are a human invention that is part of the human ability to go beyond simple animal instincts and create things such as laws, culture, society and yes, rights. If a society agrees that X has the right to Y, that is not a given, it's an agreement. Goldfish do not nescesarily have the right to live, we just feel they do because we have decided that they do. But that's not even completely true. Many animals such as cows, chickens, many fish, pigs but also flies and spiders are killed for various reasons every day, which can hardly be considered wrong.
(But you see, I am a conscious being. I mind dying and pain and such.
Fish don't.
That's my whole point.
Whether or not fish have the right to live is really a whole different issue that really has nothing to do with the argument I'm making. 'rights' are a human invention that is part of the human ability to go beyond simple animal instincts and create things such as laws, culture, society and yes, rights. If a society agrees that X has the right to Y, that is not a given, it's an agreement. Goldfish do not nescesarily have the right to live, we just feel they do because we have decided that they do. But that's not even completely true. Many animals such as cows, chickens, many fish, pigs but also flies and spiders are killed for various reasons every day, which can hardly be considered wrong.
DaSchop gippie,
Fri 11 Aug 2006, 1:57,
archived)
AppreciatedBut we kill livestock to eat. Thats survival. Theres a big difference between that and killing a goldfish in the name of art.
And watch the video. You can clearly see that the goldfish is distressed, as soon as the water level begins to drop its movements are jerky and panicky. It doesn't exactly look overjoyed, does it?
I just dont see who would be so very depraved as to kill something and call it art.
(And watch the video. You can clearly see that the goldfish is distressed, as soon as the water level begins to drop its movements are jerky and panicky. It doesn't exactly look overjoyed, does it?
I just dont see who would be so very depraved as to kill something and call it art.
SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever,
Fri 11 Aug 2006, 2:03,
archived)
well,that's a bit of an anthropomorphism.
Flapping about is just the fish's instinctive response to not being in water. I suppose it's evolutionary cause is to move it from dry land into any nearby water.
But it doesn't mean the fish is in pain or emotional distress.
Whether or not it is a ad thing to kill and torture a goldfish, that is a matter of opinion. You obviously think it is and I, well, I do too really but I really can't support that with any scientifically reasonable arguments.
(Flapping about is just the fish's instinctive response to not being in water. I suppose it's evolutionary cause is to move it from dry land into any nearby water.
But it doesn't mean the fish is in pain or emotional distress.
Whether or not it is a ad thing to kill and torture a goldfish, that is a matter of opinion. You obviously think it is and I, well, I do too really but I really can't support that with any scientifically reasonable arguments.
DaSchop gippie,
Fri 11 Aug 2006, 2:15,
archived)
Pfffft.Who needs science when you've got a conscience?
( SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever,
Fri 11 Aug 2006, 2:19,
archived)
pfft, if it weren't for science,goldfish wouldn't have existed in the first place!*
*may not be exactly, or at all, true
(*may not be exactly, or at all, true
DaSchop gippie,
Fri 11 Aug 2006, 2:25,
archived)