Yes... it is a very general, anrachistic, line of reasoning...Yes... it could be applied to a lot of things...
However Veganism is not 'unthinkably vital'. General consensus has not reached the point where its momentum forces changes in animal rights legislation.
It hasn't even reached that point for the homeless, poor and sick.
So, no its not a specific objection to Veganism. Its an objection to people wasting their (and others) time with a belief system that is fundamentally at odds with the nature of the world.
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Tue 7 Apr 2009, 16:47,
archived)
However Veganism is not 'unthinkably vital'. General consensus has not reached the point where its momentum forces changes in animal rights legislation.
It hasn't even reached that point for the homeless, poor and sick.
So, no its not a specific objection to Veganism. Its an objection to people wasting their (and others) time with a belief system that is fundamentally at odds with the nature of the world.
So how exactly does the momentum change,given that there's no point or reason in believing anything that goes against the mainstream?
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my other username is a porsche , posting shit pictures so you don't have to,
Tue 7 Apr 2009, 16:50,
archived)
I suppose the momentum changes,Because some people are not capable of going with the flow, and seek to change things.
Things changes.
Slowly.
Meantime, there are a bunch of people enjoying themselves, and not paying too much attention to the moralistic positions of those who aren't.
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Tue 7 Apr 2009, 17:10,
archived)
Things changes.
Slowly.
Meantime, there are a bunch of people enjoying themselves, and not paying too much attention to the moralistic positions of those who aren't.
I'm sure they're enjoying themselves too.Presumably they get more enjoyment from abiding by their moral view of the world than they would from eating a bit of meat now and then, otherwise they wouldn't do it.
I'm guessing there have been some changes you like, such as free health care and equality. But you'd still argue against the people who went against the mainstream to fight to instigate them?
(I'm guessing there have been some changes you like, such as free health care and equality. But you'd still argue against the people who went against the mainstream to fight to instigate them?
my other username is a porsche , posting shit pictures so you don't have to,
Tue 7 Apr 2009, 17:15,
archived)
Yes I would.Equality is another horrible illusion. I'm all for advancement based on utilitarian merit, not on some arbitrary government declaration.
Eg. If some total tard gets a job instead of me, because targets for racial equality need to be met, I would consider that to be a disgrace.
Free health care I'm not fussed either way about. Ultimately, its probably a lot more efficient for health to operate in the private sector, but I respect the utilitarian arguments in favour of public health, as the health of a countries economy is directly linked to the health of its populous.
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Tue 7 Apr 2009, 17:22,
archived)
Eg. If some total tard gets a job instead of me, because targets for racial equality need to be met, I would consider that to be a disgrace.
Free health care I'm not fussed either way about. Ultimately, its probably a lot more efficient for health to operate in the private sector, but I respect the utilitarian arguments in favour of public health, as the health of a countries economy is directly linked to the health of its populous.
I said equality, not positive discrimination.But the government does sometimes get confused between the two.
I am a little confused as to why you're arguing for the stagnation of mankind.
(I am a little confused as to why you're arguing for the stagnation of mankind.
my other username is a porsche , posting shit pictures so you don't have to,
Tue 7 Apr 2009, 17:26,
archived)
I'm not arguing for it.......more arguing for its inevitability!
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Tue 7 Apr 2009, 17:30,
archived)
Other belief systems have been at odds with the nature of the world and have been largely accepted now, or at least more so than nothing as they were before.For a start you have to believe there's such a thing as a 'nature of the world', which while any misanthrope will tell you is a harsh unchangable and self destructive place, is ultimately an incredibly complex system which can alter radically from inane and tiny things.
The major problem is that with the development of the human race the size of groups that people are capable of cooperating with has not increased at the same rate as the global population has, though to abandon or criticise any attempts to years from now overcome or rectify this is ultimately just jaded.
Presuming you're an athiest then you are realistically just wasting your time between your birth and death, whether you hope or feel you have achieved anything is irrelevent and all the time you have spent will be eradicated and meaningless when you die.
So then why not blow the top of your head off instead of wasting time on something which will achieve nothing?
(,
Tue 7 Apr 2009, 16:58,
archived)
The major problem is that with the development of the human race the size of groups that people are capable of cooperating with has not increased at the same rate as the global population has, though to abandon or criticise any attempts to years from now overcome or rectify this is ultimately just jaded.
Presuming you're an athiest then you are realistically just wasting your time between your birth and death, whether you hope or feel you have achieved anything is irrelevent and all the time you have spent will be eradicated and meaningless when you die.
So then why not blow the top of your head off instead of wasting time on something which will achieve nothing?
Are you saying all Atheists should kill themselves? Dude.Yes... everyone is wasting their time between birth and death.
I guess it all really depends on whether you wish to waste that time getting uppity on behalf of a bunch of creatures that couldn't and wouldn't thankyou for it (even if they knew about it and were capable of understanding), or whether you instead choose to waste that time by enjoying eating said creatures.
The reason I haven't committed suicide is simple; it doesn't sound like much fun. Ultimately, the passage of time throughout my life might be insignificant and meaningless in the grand scheme of the universe, but whilst I am enduring it, I may aswell enjoy what I can.
I guess I just don't understand the mindset of anyone who would prefer to spend that time doing unenjoyable thankless stuff, only for it to turn out to be just as insignificant and meaningless as the life of someone who had a hell of a lot of fun.
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Tue 7 Apr 2009, 17:09,
archived)
I guess it all really depends on whether you wish to waste that time getting uppity on behalf of a bunch of creatures that couldn't and wouldn't thankyou for it (even if they knew about it and were capable of understanding), or whether you instead choose to waste that time by enjoying eating said creatures.
The reason I haven't committed suicide is simple; it doesn't sound like much fun. Ultimately, the passage of time throughout my life might be insignificant and meaningless in the grand scheme of the universe, but whilst I am enduring it, I may aswell enjoy what I can.
I guess I just don't understand the mindset of anyone who would prefer to spend that time doing unenjoyable thankless stuff, only for it to turn out to be just as insignificant and meaningless as the life of someone who had a hell of a lot of fun.
Well why not fight for some potentially futile cause? It's ultimately still meaningless as everything else.And while you may seem enthralled by transient physical enjoyment, that's just your brain pumped full of chemicals I couldn't even name telling the fragile human psychological profile that things are good. Doesn't mean shit all.
If you want to take individual human perception and psychology as a given rather than take the bleak path, then you can't really argue they are living pointlessly because it obviously gives them a great deal of pleasure and fulfillment. In which case it can't be said to be more of a waste of time than enjoying yourself on the path of least resistance because ultimately none of these mean anything when it comes to life and death, but they can both still make the person feel like they have come to terms with and lived whatever concept of life they have. And if personal experience is what matters then their choice of life is no more or less meaningless.
QED
N.B. Suicide isn't meant to be fun, but what good is fun when you're dead anyway, just a way of cutting out the middleman.
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Tue 7 Apr 2009, 17:23,
archived)
If you want to take individual human perception and psychology as a given rather than take the bleak path, then you can't really argue they are living pointlessly because it obviously gives them a great deal of pleasure and fulfillment. In which case it can't be said to be more of a waste of time than enjoying yourself on the path of least resistance because ultimately none of these mean anything when it comes to life and death, but they can both still make the person feel like they have come to terms with and lived whatever concept of life they have. And if personal experience is what matters then their choice of life is no more or less meaningless.
QED
N.B. Suicide isn't meant to be fun, but what good is fun when you're dead anyway, just a way of cutting out the middleman.
You make a very good case sir!And a nice little flourish of latin at the end!
Yes, I do enjoy transient physical enjoyment. But since all things are transient, and all enjoyment is based upon the physical interactions of brain chemicals, what other kind of enjoyment is there?
You're right tho - there is nothing more or less meaningless in veganism than in anything else. I'll concede that.
=D
Who's saying I'm dead anyway? I might be an nihilistic anarchist, but I'm very much alive and enjoying myself!
(,
Tue 7 Apr 2009, 17:44,
archived)
Yes, I do enjoy transient physical enjoyment. But since all things are transient, and all enjoyment is based upon the physical interactions of brain chemicals, what other kind of enjoyment is there?
You're right tho - there is nothing more or less meaningless in veganism than in anything else. I'll concede that.
=D
Who's saying I'm dead anyway? I might be an nihilistic anarchist, but I'm very much alive and enjoying myself!