Good argument
And thanks on the list, I've got a bunch of them but I'll definatly research Men Behind The Sun, Dog Star Man and The General Line (incidentally seeing as you brought up Restrepo, catch Armadillo if you haven't already).
You obviously know your way around film, I fully respect your opinion. Without treading too far into the beard-scratching-who-knows-more-about-avart-garde-cinema territory, there's no way I would place this in the category of true intellectual cinema. I understand your point of distancing this video from people I mentioned, but even folk like Lynch made 'Dumbland', something I'm still having trouble fathoming if he was just taking the piss or not.
Regardless, I respect him for releasing it, as he made something he was proud enough to stamp his own name upon and release into the wide world, with no real concern for it's critial reception.
Films like Zulawski's 'Possession' or 'Diabel', Denis's 'Trouble Every Day' and 'The Intruder', even going way back to early Bertolucci with 'Before The Revolution' (as well as many that you have mentioned) they all share a common theme of stepping into the realm of the unknown. It typically takes a few return journeys to work out what the hell is actually going on. Again, I wouldn't dare try and lump this video in with anything even closely resembling the films both of us have referenced. I think we are on the same wavelength of believing the people behind this video made it with the pure intent of doing something wierd for wierd's sake.
But I'm sure back when they were experimenting with their cameras, Lynch, Cronenberg, Bunuel, Zulawski, and everyone else we've talked about probably has a stash kicking about in someone's basement with old footage of how this goes with that or how that looks with that on it and what would it be like if we do this and so on (I know Kubrick did, he avoided the embarassment and burnt as much of his archive as he possibly could, bar the boxes [incidentally, I'm sure you would have seen it, but if not, track down the documentary 'Stanley Kubrick's Boxes' by Jon Ronson. An invigorating watch]).
That's how I view this piece of work. it definatly is wierd for the sake of wierd. But can you honestly tell me that everything that every brilliant artist we've seen in the film industry has created nothing but stunning, expressionistic, evocative, life-affirming pieces of work, or have there been a few duds early on that worked as a stepping stone for something bolder, better and worth waiting for?
And on the account of wierd for wierd's sake, I have to admit there's a wealth of material that comes to mind that, personally, stand up on their own two feet as pieces of entertainment. Examples like selected pieces from Takashi Miike, Ôbayashi 'Hausu' (absolutly worth a watch with some friends late one night, a total riot), and 'Andy Warhol's Bad' (which he only produced) all show an absolute reluctance to conform to any requirement to explain or quantify the wierdness (and there's a TON) throughout their pictures. An excellent recent example of this would be Quentin Dupieux's 'Rubber', which opens with a monologue aimed directly at the audience dissecting the validity of 'no reason' in cinema. Sure, it's tongue in cheek, but it's absolutly the director's true and unabashed sentiment; sometimes, if it pays off, it's fucking great cinema. Nothing more, nothing less.
I apologise if my first post came off a tad stand-offish. There have been a few occasions on this board when something I generally consider to be at the very least an interesting watch that gets blown out of the water by someone who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about, but are adament they are correct nonetheless. That's my own ignorance, I must stop that.
(, Sat 7 May 2011, 20:42, Reply)
What a lovely civilised conversation this turned out to be.
I wish all of the internet was like this. I shall endeavour to watch suggested films, and thank you for your participation :D
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PMGT -Bacon., Mon 9 May 2011, 21:37,
Reply)
My thoughts exactly
I'll definatly track down the ones you brought up. If people were more like us the internet would be a better place.
(, Tue 10 May 2011, 20:14, Reply)