All of us won, I'd say.

( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Mon 2 May 2011, 5:10, 40 replies)

Yeah...
Enjoy that transatlantic flight ok....
(ceeej, Mon 2 May 2011, 8:44, closed)

But who will we fear and hate now?
Geoffrey Archer?
( Sextant goes to him is emotionally erect, on this day, Mon 2 May 2011, 10:24, closed)

Donald Trump

(Misery McUglywife an attention seeking sociopathic fuckstain., Mon 2 May 2011, 10:54, closed)

That works for me.
Although I gotta say, I really, REALLY hope he runs for president, because then the Daily Show would have months of fantastic material to work with...
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Mon 2 May 2011, 15:44, closed)

Quite the opposite
Watch out for further invasions of privacy in the name of keeping you safe - "nothing to hide, nothing to fear", right?

Interesting that we haven't heard from OBL for seven years, and now he's "killed" just as the election year looms.

Fishier than your mum's knickers, I'd say.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 2 May 2011, 10:45, closed)

You're right.
Aside from warning France of a high price to be paid for its policies in January this year, multiple recordings threatening the murder of Americans and several other nations last year, and many more the year before that, we haven't heard from him AT ALL.

Still, am holding out judgement until evidence is released. I'm not expecting a death certificate or anything, but something independent would be nice.
(Captain Skippy pooed in a bag and left it on your doorstep, Mon 2 May 2011, 12:29, closed)

Goos luck with the confirmation from independant sources.
They've already dumped the body they allege is him in the sea. You know, so that they can prove beyond all reasonable doubt to the world at large that it was him, with extensive independent DNA testing, fingerprinting and the like.
I'm not one of those who thinks he's been dead for years or anything but the USians did themselves no favours with this one and with their track record of deceit I don't think anyone can say that OBL is dead.
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Mon 2 May 2011, 16:36, closed)

I would have thought that the squad that shot him can say without hesitation that he is dead.

( JessAction Give me all your expensive brandy and hubcaps., Mon 2 May 2011, 18:58, closed)

I didn't realise they sent in his dentist, his brother and a fingerprint expert.
Was good that they sent in a few French experts too and some Danes.
Or, perhaps, they just sent in people who are paid to kill for the US and say what they're told?
Heck, this isn't any kind of tinfoil hat or the like but just basic scepticism -- if Manchester United told you they'd beaten Newcastle but the only people there were the teams and Newcastle weren't available for comment, would you believe them?
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Mon 2 May 2011, 21:23, closed)

So why did they wait ten years before deciding to lie about finding and killing him?

( JessAction Give me all your expensive brandy and hubcaps., Mon 2 May 2011, 21:41, closed)

No idea, and it is odd.
But they seem to have gone to great lengths to make sure that nobody can prove they killed him -- which is even odder.
They didn't have to hand the body over to Al Jazeera so they could, rightly or wrongly, start questioning whether it really was him -- but to not even give it to a more neutral ally for complete analysis just makes them either liars or incompetent. Either way I'm not sure why anyone would take their word for it.
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Mon 2 May 2011, 22:33, closed)

I'm not one for conspiracy theories and the tin-foil-hat brigade....
But I guess the most I could believe is that he died of natural causes at some point and intelligence has only just been able to confirm it for certain - but as that seems a bit anti-climatic they've had to stage a raid and quickly "dispose" of the body to maintain an air of "AMERICA... FUCK YEAH!!!!" about it and somehow justify the thousands of lives and trillions of dollars. Not saying I do believe that, but if there were a conspiracy, I doubt it would be any more sinister than that.
(The_Mighty_Spleen, Mon 2 May 2011, 23:54, closed)

There was a piece in Saturdays paper all about the hunt for OBL in the Torra Bora mountains, after 9/11. By coincidence he's found and killed 2 days later.

I tgought it was May Bank Holiday not Osama Weekend.
(jono_h, Mon 2 May 2011, 13:50, closed)

Yeah, because nobody had mentioned him for YEARS before that.

( Zuowan, Mon 2 May 2011, 16:49, closed)

Even spookier I watched Four Lions last night and there was a scene in it where the protagonists accidentally blew up Osama. Spooooooky stuff!
(Roger McGough-Pipe, Tue 3 May 2011, 0:44, closed)

Oh wow, not even half a day before the tin foil hat brigade come out.

( JessAction Give me all your expensive brandy and hubcaps., Mon 2 May 2011, 14:33, closed)

FFS.

( Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Mon 2 May 2011, 15:34, closed)

I don't think that really works.
He looks like he's angry, whereas I suppose he's meant to be displaying badassery.
(apeloverage committed the vile act of onanism on, Mon 2 May 2011, 12:06, closed)

"Won", yeah...
The decade of conflict was absolutely worth it. I'm not saying the guy didn't have it coming, just that in the last ten years everyone's lost out, and will continue to do so.
(StapMyVitals wouldn't mind a bit of that, Mon 2 May 2011, 14:42, closed)

You can use the excuses of "national security", "the recession", "climate change" or some combination of all three to justify anything.
Anything at all.

Also, I'd bet actual money on there'll be another decade (or more) of pointless conflict to come.
( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Mon 2 May 2011, 19:19, closed)

Trial?
Hermann Goering got a fair trial, even Adolf Eichmann, after being abducted by the Mossad, went to trial. So did Slobodan Milosevic. But that's probably just to boring, with too many long words and such.
(Robotnik, Mon 2 May 2011, 15:34, closed)

All the world's pollies/media
need to realise that revenge killing ≠ "justice has been served".
I'm not here or there about his death - I'm pretty sure he must known his deathclock had stopped a looong time ago. But my idea of serving justice is a process whereby a perpetrator is apprehended, made to atone for their crimes thru incarceration, corporal or even capital punishment (difference being that if he'd been shot by a firing squad - @ least he would have gone thru the process!) and hopefully repent or be rehabilitated. Shooting someone (& fambily/friends) 'cause they did you wrong is simply killing in the name of revenge.
(Misery McUglywife an attention seeking sociopathic fuckstain., Mon 2 May 2011, 23:59, closed)

I kind of like the no nonsense approach. Capture, trial and conviction. Nope, shoot the fucker in the head. Hopefully Qaddafi is watching.
(hairybuddha, Mon 2 May 2011, 16:40, closed)

Thieving prick.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Mon 2 May 2011, 19:09, closed)

Nice to see they've finally got round to taking the bins out on bank holidays.
( Vambo, Mon 2 May 2011, 21:30, closed)

Yes I thought that was good
though it nearly caught me out as I forgot to put out the recycling on Sunday night, and had to rush downstairs with it on Monday!
( emvee cruor deo cruoris, Tue 3 May 2011, 10:24, closed)

Obama's use of the word "justice" is what worries me
Time was this used to mean some kind of trial.

Now it seems to be interchangeable with "retribution" or "revenge"
( rofl harris, Tue 3 May 2011, 11:54, closed)

Don't worry too much
it's just one of the many subtle differences between merkin and English.
( Sextant goes to him is emotionally erect, on this day, Tue 3 May 2011, 13:07, closed)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2011/05/04/3207128.htm

(Misery McUglywife an attention seeking sociopathic fuckstain., Wed 4 May 2011, 0:35, closed)

link doesnt work
What was it?
(OTT, Wed 4 May 2011, 6:29, closed)

Geoffrey Robertson talking about how it wasn't justice.
Here try this 1.
(Misery McUglywife an attention seeking sociopathic fuckstain., Wed 4 May 2011, 14:17, closed)

whatever (or however good) the motive, reason, or justification
... I'm not sure going around killing people really counts as a "win".
(haberman is singing in the changes, Tue 3 May 2011, 16:52, closed)

No, but
taking away the central figure of al Quaeda certainly counts as something positive.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Tue 3 May 2011, 19:56, closed)

Hmmmm, I struggle with this

I was reading something today which mentioned that 33,000 people died on the roads in the US last year. 33,000. It just seems that people hugely lose perspective. I know that it is different, because those were accidents as opposed to a deliberate act, but the scale is totally different.

How about the drug violence in Central America atm? Mexico is still a mess and it's spreading into Guatemala, El Salvador, the whole way down. All fuelled by US demand for cocaine. I don't know how much coverage it gets over there but it almost never gets even mentioned here.

It just seems to me that, as morally bad as it is, it really isn't that big a deal. Your odds of being killed by terrorists are statistically insignificant. So the only way that it works as a tactic is if everyone keeps banging on about it and telling us how scared we should be by it. Which we shouldn't.

As I said, it's not that I lack sympathy for victims and their families, more that there are bigger problems in the world to get angry about, and that getting angry and scared about this one is the only way in which the people responsible for these attacks can win in any way.

/EDIT btw, I will quite happily put my hand up and say that if someone I loved was killed, or it was my town that was attacked, I wouldn't be quite so sanguine about the whole thing. Preposterous hypocrisy, but there you go

/Edit2 Sorry, turning into a bit of a stream of conscious rant. I think that the media have a lot to answer for in creating a climate of fear, but governments have hardly tried to dispel them. Case in point; dirty bombs. Absolutely useless as any kind of radioactive device, but was that reported? Was is buggery.

As for Bin Laden's death changing the world.... There is a documentary by Adam Curtis called the Rise of the Politics of Fear. It's excellent (IMO). My main reason for mentioning it is that in it he describes how, after the Soviet Union broke up, the western publics were surprised at the contrast between what they'd been told about how powerful the Soviets were, and as the truth gradually came out, how much of a shambles they were really in.

Right, I've rambled enough. Hope that some of that makes sense. Or is at least coherent enough to read. I shall await the potential flaming.
( kappynitty doubled your entendre on, Tue 3 May 2011, 21:06, closed)

yeah, wonderful
My favourite part was when the economic climate dictated that the white house and ground zero had to be rented out for a wrestling match and drag race respectively.

What other reason could there be for the thousands of merkins chanting "USA, USA, USA"

The shermans would have killed the fucker years ago if someone had told them that osama was a kidnapped aid worker being held hostage in a very delicate and precarious situation.

A few grenades would have taken care of that.
(OTT, Tue 3 May 2011, 17:10, closed)

Rumours of SAS involvement in the raid...
...were denied by a Ministry of Defence spokesman who went on to say, "British Special Forces have got more sense than to be around the Merkins when they've got guns out. We try to limit our killing to the enemy only."
( Snappyuk gets BIGGER with free sample., Tue 3 May 2011, 17:51, closed)

Top stereotyping there.
Only slightly behind casting the English as effete little pansies hiding behind skirts and whimpering "Mumsy" any time a shadow passes.

Get over yourself, you prejudicial little twit.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Tue 3 May 2011, 19:55, closed)

i can see where you are coming from
But I think "prejudicial twit" is a tad strong. The best man at my wedding was a yank. He just happens to be a really good one.

The first part was just an expression of distaste at the sight of thousands of people taking to the streets to not only celebrate somebody's death but do so by mindlessly chanting the "abbreviated" name of their country over and over and over. If that doesn't make people stop and think then this fucking should (http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/kids-celebrating-osama-bin-ladens-death?s=mobile). Anyone here remember wincing at the sight of footage of people celebrating 9/11? But then they were just rag heads. Give them a polo shirt, stars and stripes and then plonk them in times square and everything is hunky dory again?

The second part was just a reference to the last high profile US special forces mission which saw fellow Scot Linda Norgrove kinda killed by the "good" guys. Not by a stray bullet though. By a fucking GRENADE. I can't find my belm emoticon right now but I would be using it if I could.

As for stereo types they serve a purpose. On my last trip to the states I met some truly awesome people. I also met a few pretty tidy looking ladies. Many of whom, upon laying eyes on my kilt clad self would ask if it was true that scotsman wore nothing underneath. Yep, stereotypes rock.
(OTT, Tue 3 May 2011, 21:00, closed)

I'm a Merkin. :(
And I'm ashamed of how some of us have behaved. Anybody else reminded of the Two Minutes' Hate from 1984?

Have you got any spare room over on your side of the pond for a sheepish ex-Merkin to sidle in and try and pretend to be a native?
(TheWonderfulWombat It came to me in a dream., Tue 3 May 2011, 22:52, closed)

no room over here i am afraid.
People like you need to stay there if there is any hope of keeping the other ones in check ;)

Edit: your comment about two minute hate just sank in.

It looked like a disneyfied version I suppose. Lots of smiles and bright colours. A truly fin time for all the family.
(OTT, Wed 4 May 2011, 6:18, closed)