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I don't understand this...
Here

She has her fucking hand in his trousers - how is that going to be rape?
(I helped save b3ta! Pickle Fairy is clumsily dancing away this fear, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:18, archived)
I know a lot of people won't agree with me here....
www.thisisnotaninvitationtorapeme.co.uk/drinking/

I could be wrong here, but I think they're implying that if a lady gets drunk and changes her mind the next morning, that the bloke still raped her.

It also strongly implies that only men rape women, and it's never the other way around.
(I helped save b3ta! G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:22, archived)
Sometimes you really are utterly shit.

(I helped save b3ta! well, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:22, archived)
Huh?
Don't get me wrong, I'm totally against rape, but I find the implied pholosophy that if a lady is intoxicated (and to what extent?), that it's instantly the man's fault. It's billeting to women, for starters.

I'm not talking about a drunk girl who's essenchaly unconcous, I'm talking about a girl who changes her mind after the event.
(I helped save b3ta! G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:26, archived)
Of course men can be raped by women. And there's statutory rape when grown women sleep with boys under age 16.
And if two people are equally drunk and sleep with each other, and both regret it, then who raped whom? Neither. Blame shouldn't go to the male by default if both were blind drunk and agreed to sex in that state.
(I helped save b3ta! KersaI Missive Free Michael Shields! with Monday's Liverpool Echo, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:42, archived)
And we've both forgoten about male-on-male rape.

(I helped save b3ta! G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:23, archived)
It doesn't matter if you're drunk
You can still make decisions.
(I helped save b3ta! Pickle Fairy is clumsily dancing away this fear, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:23, archived)
Not true.

(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:25, archived)
Then you should learn your limits

(I helped save b3ta! Pickle Fairy is clumsily dancing away this fear, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:26, archived)
That's not really an excuse for raping someone.
Although it seems that when men get so drunk, maybe they can't help but have sex when the opportunity arises. They should know their limits, if that's the case.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:28, archived)
Well, I mean the changing your mind after

(I helped save b3ta! Pickle Fairy is clumsily dancing away this fear, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:30, archived)
What if you are so drunk that you can only mumble, and you can't stay conscious?
How is that 'changing your mind afterwards'?
(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:34, archived)
This is where knowing your limits comes in...

(I helped save b3ta! Pickle Fairy is clumsily dancing away this fear, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:34, archived)
Oh you really are a fuckwit aren't you?

(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:36, archived)
Yup

(I helped save b3ta! Pickle Fairy is clumsily dancing away this fear, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:37, archived)
*clickety click*

(I helped save b3ta! Theoban What of it, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:37, archived)
Ah resorting to insults rather than a well reasoned argument
Isnt that what i get accused of?
(I helped save b3ta! Mykeyboy A massive, salty filing cabinet, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:38, archived)
Oh great, clique to the rescue.

(I helped save b3ta! well, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:39, archived)
It's only really worth reasoning with people
who are capable of understanding reason.
(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:39, archived)
Well reasoned arguments seem to be lost on PickleFairy

(I helped save b3ta! SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:40, archived)
you fucking morons

(I helped save b3ta! 100% kitten better than ever, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 23:04, archived)
I think we're talking about
when it actually is 'changing your mind afterwards'.
Being drunk can actually make you more "up for stuff" that you wouldn't normally do. Like dancing.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:36, archived)
Fucking hell
So you've never gone out and got too drunk? Are you seriously implying that there is any kind of blame to be put on a woman for being raped?

Are you fucking insane?
(I helped save b3ta! SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:29, archived)
I have been so drunk that I can't make decisions

(I helped save b3ta! Pickle Fairy is clumsily dancing away this fear, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:33, archived)
I'm permanently that drunk.

(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:34, archived)
...sorry, thats just totally fucked up your logic
You've been that drunk, thankfully for your sake nothing bad happened, but if it had, are you seriously saying that you'd take responsibility?

That's...well, it's extremely offensive, for one.
(I helped save b3ta! SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:36, archived)
You're too thick to make any decisions at all, to be honest.

oh you horrid popular page bullies!
(I helped save b3ta! Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:37, archived)
Learn your limits?
What the fuck?
(I helped save b3ta! well, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:30, archived)
What if your drink is spiked?
What if you drink the same amount as you normally do, but it affects you more?

Have you the slightest clue about what you are saying?
(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:30, archived)
If you drink is spiked that's a completely different point
No-one expects you to make decisions after that.
(I helped save b3ta! Pickle Fairy is clumsily dancing away this fear, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:34, archived)
But how do you know?
How can a man tell?
Does a little sign light up above your head?

No.
(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:39, archived)
How can a man tell if throughout th evening you've given him all the signals that you want to have sex
ie having your hand on his cock

Surely the woman has a responsibility to not encourage such things by her behaviour?
(I helped save b3ta! Mykeyboy A massive, salty filing cabinet, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:40, archived)
If she says No.
It means no.

If she's incapable of standing up, in capable of speech, incapable of walking, then she is incapable of making an informed decision, and therefore having sex with her, knowing that she is unable to make an informed decision is having sex without consent.

The areas get a little grey when both parties are that pissed, but the onus is always going to be with the more sober of the pair.
(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:43, archived)
Wicca, i am all dispair

(I helped save b3ta! SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:46, archived)
But lets face it
Most often both parites are pissed

Possibly in your experience but i would imagine not in others men are not all evil monsters intent on rape and violence... it might well be two drunk people and a confluence of events. It really is far from cut and dry as you paint it.
(I helped save b3ta! Mykeyboy A massive, salty filing cabinet, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:52, archived)
Well he could start by asking
if she says yes, groovy.

Also it's probably fair to say that by the time it gets to that particular act, if she says she's not into the idea then it's safe to say that she's not into the idea.

To be honest I fail to see how anyone could get it wrong, without noticing it wasn't wanted.
(I helped save b3ta! SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:44, archived)
I think that's something like flirting.
It doesn't mean a woman should be violently attacked.
(I helped save b3ta! Lisette von Falcon, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:46, archived)
Spiking someone's drink is a crime in itself,
and if it's rohypnol... well... anything someone consents to after that is irrelevant.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:40, archived)
I doubt anyone is going to spike your drink
I suspect you're safe
(I helped save b3ta! Mykeyboy A massive, salty filing cabinet, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:37, archived)
KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOUR AHOOOOOOY!

(I helped save b3ta! Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:39, archived)
I think he probably read what people had said in the thread so far
and picked a side based entirely on that to be fair.
(I helped save b3ta! well, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:41, archived)
Hahahahaha.

(I helped save b3ta! Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:46, archived)
Hahaha.
For a while I thought you were actually for real but you are CLEARLY a gonzo fake account.

Not a bad innings though.
(I helped save b3ta! Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:31, archived)
Seriously, that Youtube thing where your comments are read out to you is exactly what we need on this board.

(I helped save b3ta! Theoban What of it, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:33, archived)
I think that would only encourge some of the cretins on here.

(I helped save b3ta! well, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:34, archived)
I am optimistic that it would lead to a moment of epiphany

(I helped save b3ta! Theoban What of it, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:35, archived)
I'm not,

(I helped save b3ta! well, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:36, archived)
It's when they decide "yes" at the time,
and then decide "no" in the morning when they remember it that the trouble starts.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:26, archived)
If a woman gets blind drunk, makes a pass at a bloke, and then passes out
does that mean it's ok for him to have sex with her?

If someone is so drunk that they can't even speak properly, then they can't give informed consent. It's not as bad as raping someone by force, but it's not consensual sex either.
(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:23, archived)
No, of course not.
But I'm talking about women who change their mind after the act.

And in terms of 'informed consent', technacly if she thinks he's a "nice guy" or "a millionaire" or any of the talk that guys sometimes gives... it's the same thing, she isn't informed.
(I helped save b3ta! G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:30, archived)
And on that note, visa-versa, with females to males.

(I helped save b3ta! G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:31, archived)
Plus males to males, and females to females.
You have to admit, it's a fair point.

Granted, blind-drunk and tippsy are two different things.

I'm not saying rape doesn't happen, I'm not saying drug/booze-rape doesn't happen, I'm just saying that dispite all the scum who would do that, there are plenty of cases where people's lives have been ruined because someone had one too many bicarddi brezers and changed her mind the next morning... or even further on, like when her boyfriend finds out.
(I helped save b3ta! G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:35, archived)

We love to go out, get drunk and have a laugh, and meet guys, but no one expects to be raped.
(I helped save b3ta! magnum, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:29, archived)
UNEXPECTED SEX

(I helped save b3ta! magnum, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:29, archived)
Oh, ok then
*bums*
(I helped save b3ta! broadsword now that's fresh, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:32, archived)
Erm...
If she decides not to have sex with him, and says no then it is rape.

Just because you get a bit touchy feely, doesn;t give someone the right to have sex with you.

I can't believe you even had to post the question ffs.
(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:22, archived)
I can understand the two points of view here
On one side of the argument, the picture shows the women with her hand down his trousers on his cock. Her actions are suggesting to the man (from his point of view) that she wants to be sexually intimate.
The other side of the argument is "'no' means no".
(I helped save b3ta! turb0t, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:31, archived)
No, it is a sign that she wants to play with his cock.
It is not a sign that she will have sex.

I might go down on someone, but not want to fuck them. I fI say 'No', then I do not expect to be raped because 'I was obviously askingg for it'.
(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:36, archived)
Yes this is true,
However, that is how you see it. But when you've progressed passed the kissy kissy stage, and she has slipped her hand down his trousers to fondle his cock, Its quite likely that he will be feeling very turned on, so she shouldn't be surprised if he tries to slip his hand up her skirt/down her trousers too. I'm not suggesting that he has any right to penetrative sex at all at this point, but his emotions and feelings will make him think that his luck is on, and that he will get sex in a little while.
No still means no, and always will.
But she is playing with his feelings and emotions, and just as he has no right to have unconcenting sex with her, she equally has no right to mess with his feelings by taking him along the path that will give him full arousal, and then suddenly stop and expect him to not be pissed off.
(I helped save b3ta! turb0t, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:45, archived)
You're wrong.

(WANKERTRON you say "prick", I say "wanker", Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:53, archived)
He's not wrong.
It's not an excuse for rape. but he's not wrong. The way you treat people influences their emotions, and they might not get emotions that are congruent with your own intentions. On some level, deep down, people are somewhat automatic.
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:59, archived)
The bottom line is this.
If I meet a girl in a bar (or anywhere) and we have a few drinks and start chatting, and then things progress to moving a bit closer and kissing, if she was to say from the outset "I want to slide my hand into your trousers and play with your cock, and get you really aroused, right up to the point of orgasm. But I don't want sex with you". I would say "no thanks." Basically its a bit of reversal here, the woman is almost raping the man.
But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that just because he consents to allowing her to fondle his cock, that she should automatically have to accept that she must have sex with him.

I'd also like to point out that this is hypothetical, and that I would not be in this situation, as I'm happily married. Nor did I meet Mrs turb0t this way.
(I helped save b3ta! turb0t, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 19:06, archived)
I still stand by the fact that "NO" means No!
but you are saying that you are happy to let a women slide her hand into your trousers without asking you, and let her play with your cock right up to the point of full arousal, and then shortly before getting to the vinegar strokes, you are happy for her to stop and you both go back to your own respective beds.
(I helped save b3ta! turb0t, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 19:00, archived)
Actually, I was just pre-empting the invariable response from an intellectual.

(WANKERTRON you say "prick", I say "wanker", Wed 29 Oct 2008, 19:01, archived)
But if God is telling him to kill her anyway it doesn't matter.

(I helped save b3ta! stuj (^(^;;^)^) GO TEAM SPIDERS!(^(^;;^)^), Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:42, archived)
I think these two things are not mutually exclusive.

(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:45, archived)
Erm...because there's a difference between the two?
Yes it's a bit forward but it's not an open invitation.
(I helped save b3ta! SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:23, archived)
You are quite right.

(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:25, archived)
I just don't think you can blame a guy
If you are going to be that forward.
(I helped save b3ta! Pickle Fairy is clumsily dancing away this fear, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:27, archived)
I think actually everybody is responsible for their own actions.

(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:29, archived)
Are you fucking stupid?
Really?

Where do you draw the line? No means fucking no, you stupid cow.
(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:29, archived)
Oh silly Wicca
Everyone knows if you touch a winky, that means you have to have sex with the man! It's the Pickle Law!
(I helped save b3ta! Theoban What of it, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:30, archived)
By her definition, marital rape doesn't even exist!

(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:32, archived)
If I ever find a woman passed out drunk, by her rules, it's fair game! Silly bitch should know her limits!
What a world she must live in.
(I helped save b3ta! Theoban What of it, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:34, archived)
That isn't the same thing at all

(I helped save b3ta! Pickle Fairy is clumsily dancing away this fear, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:36, archived)
I haven't even mentioned marital rape
I agree with every other point on the website. Just not the one where she is groping him because she doesn't want sex.
(I helped save b3ta! Pickle Fairy is clumsily dancing away this fear, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:36, archived)
Why is that 'consent'?
Do you really believe that a man has no control of his penis, and that once it's touched he HAS to have penetrative sex, or he will spontaneously combust?
(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:41, archived)
I don't think I said that

(I helped save b3ta! Pickle Fairy is clumsily dancing away this fear, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:44, archived)
So why is a man not to blame if he has sex with her against her will?
What is it that she has done, that implies consent?
(I helped save b3ta! Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:49, archived)
blue balls innit
haw haw haw
(I helped save b3ta! Lisette von Falcon, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:45, archived)
One of my exes had been told something similar by an ex of hers and believed it.
I didn't realise until she apologised for not being in the mood and was really concerned that I was going to be in a lot of pain.
(I helped save b3ta! nick the greek, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:46, archived)
You can blame someone
when you say "no" and they carry on regardless.
(I helped save b3ta! SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:30, archived)
You silly little girl.

(I helped save b3ta! Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:32, archived)
What?
So men aren't in control of their actions?
(I helped save b3ta! well, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:35, archived)
I think she's getting waaaaay too much attention for this drooling approximation to an opinion.
Shall we talk about winter vegetables instead?
(I helped save b3ta! Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:38, archived)
I want to get my own plot of land, fresh vegetables are truly a joy

(I helped save b3ta! Theoban What of it, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:41, archived)
my marrow is particularly engorged at the moment

(I helped save b3ta! Grrrmachine the indifference engine, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:41, archived)
That marrow
was gagging for it officer
(I helped save b3ta! robh, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:42, archived)
I'm too angry now
I think I need to go listen to some PWEI and happy up
(I helped save b3ta! SugarSpunSister Yeah, whatever, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:52, archived)
Of course they are
But I don't think you can accuse him of rape in that situation.
(I helped save b3ta! Pickle Fairy is clumsily dancing away this fear, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:39, archived)
You can if he has sex with her,
even when she is saying "no in fact I don't actually want to have sex now please".
(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:43, archived)
I don't have picard ascii saved anymore so...
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(I helped save b3ta! Theoban What of it, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:28, archived)
I love this

(I helped save b3ta! Blue Star was working part time at the 5 and Dime, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:29, archived)
self portrait?

(I helped save b3ta! pixxelated mocks you with their monkey pants on, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:33, archived)
I wish!
I can't pull off a monocle
(I helped save b3ta! Theoban What of it, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:34, archived)
And the hat wouldn't fit

(I helped save b3ta! pixxelated mocks you with their monkey pants on, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:37, archived)
I'M SENSITIVE ABOUT MY HEAD SIZE

(I helped save b3ta! Theoban What of it, Wed 29 Oct 2008, 18:38, archived)