I would point outSEO-ing is no exact science; it's constantly changing & evolving, and there really are no set rules how to do it. That's why some people are shit at it, and others are shit-hot at it; a good SEO consultant will charge by results rather than time, and get stinkingly rich doing it (rightfully so IMO).
I'm not a SEO but I know a couple of people who are, and I've been genuinely impressed with how in just days they can boost a site without even trying. I've also seen other self-proclaimed experts struggle to bring in 10 extra visitors over weeks.
Also a good web-dev needs to know about SEO if the site's gonna have any chance of being ranked well; there is some cross-over.
(I'm not a SEO but I know a couple of people who are, and I've been genuinely impressed with how in just days they can boost a site without even trying. I've also seen other self-proclaimed experts struggle to bring in 10 extra visitors over weeks.
Also a good web-dev needs to know about SEO if the site's gonna have any chance of being ranked well; there is some cross-over.
slippery doctore,
Mon 21 Jun 2010, 12:21,
archived)
I think making a site Search Engine friendlyis necessary, but it's a simple task and it *should* be part of a web developer's tasks (as the optimisation side of it is ultimately not all that different to accessibility)
However, I've yet to come across an SEO who doesn't achieve their goals without trying to cheat Google with methods I'd regard as spamming (posting stuff on blogs merely for search engines to find etc)
I believe this article is on the money:
teddziuba.com/2010/06/seo-is-mostly-quack-science.html
(However, I've yet to come across an SEO who doesn't achieve their goals without trying to cheat Google with methods I'd regard as spamming (posting stuff on blogs merely for search engines to find etc)
I believe this article is on the money:
teddziuba.com/2010/06/seo-is-mostly-quack-science.html
monkeon schmonkeon,
Mon 21 Jun 2010, 12:30,
archived)
Cheating is half the gameIn Googles' ideal world, it would rank everything according to unbiased relevance.
SEO on the other hand is as much about making your relevance stand out, as is about tipping the scales in your favour through whatever tactics necessary. It's not supposed to be fair, goodness me. :)
Also, you'll never know when Google et all will start to punish sites on certain underhand tactics. The rules change almost daily sometimes, and if you get caught cheating your ranking will be punished; often irrecoverably. It's a game.
(SEO on the other hand is as much about making your relevance stand out, as is about tipping the scales in your favour through whatever tactics necessary. It's not supposed to be fair, goodness me. :)
Also, you'll never know when Google et all will start to punish sites on certain underhand tactics. The rules change almost daily sometimes, and if you get caught cheating your ranking will be punished; often irrecoverably. It's a game.
slippery doctore,
Mon 21 Jun 2010, 12:39,
archived)
That is spamming, though.So, why do they complain about people using black hat techniques when all the "link building" techniques are spammy?
Link building isn't Search Engine Optimisation, it's Search Engine Cancer.
(Link building isn't Search Engine Optimisation, it's Search Engine Cancer.
monkeon schmonkeon,
Mon 21 Jun 2010, 13:01,
archived)
"In Googles' ideal world, it would rank everything according to unbiased relevance. "Sorry, but....bollocks....in Googles ideal world you'd rank according to exactly how much you've paid to rank.
If they get upset with people manipulating rankings it usually because the person hasn't paid them to do it.
(,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 1:42,
archived)
If they get upset with people manipulating rankings it usually because the person hasn't paid them to do it.
I agree that making your HTML SEO friendly is simpleand should be part of a dev's job.
Trouble is they they are generally toss at it.
(Trouble is they they are generally toss at it.
LordManley twitter.com/LordManley,
Mon 21 Jun 2010, 15:25,
archived)
So why is someonewith no background in coding any better?
(And most SEOs seem to pass on the SEO tweaks for Devs to do anyway)
((And most SEOs seem to pass on the SEO tweaks for Devs to do anyway)
monkeon schmonkeon,
Mon 21 Jun 2010, 16:02,
archived)
They are not,nobody with no background in coding can give good technical consultancy as an SEO.
Of course, I don't make the tweaks, I give them to the dev - it's his baby, not mine.
(Of course, I don't make the tweaks, I give them to the dev - it's his baby, not mine.
LordManley twitter.com/LordManley,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 11:08,
archived)
Surely to understand what the tweaks are doing,a knowledge of code helps?
Another bad experience: An SEO once told me to remove the "javascript links" from my site. He thought they were javascript because they changed colour when you rolled over them... ie using CSS. A knowledge of basic coding would have helped there.
(Another bad experience: An SEO once told me to remove the "javascript links" from my site. He thought they were javascript because they changed colour when you rolled over them... ie using CSS. A knowledge of basic coding would have helped there.
monkeon schmonkeon,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 12:53,
archived)
I'll take it as given that you are good at your job.Do these shit SEOs not piss you off for bringing your business into disrepute?
It is experiences like this which have made me very cynical.
(It is experiences like this which have made me very cynical.
monkeon schmonkeon,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 17:26,
archived)
Yes.Cunts.
Cunt them in the fucking murrays, the lot of them.
Seriously though, for a small site I was using to make money, I'd spam. The luxury of having clients who are big enough that the reputational fallout for the brand outweighs the ease of cheating is nice, but a challenge.
(Cunt them in the fucking murrays, the lot of them.
Seriously though, for a small site I was using to make money, I'd spam. The luxury of having clients who are big enough that the reputational fallout for the brand outweighs the ease of cheating is nice, but a challenge.
LordManley twitter.com/LordManley,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 17:55,
archived)