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It's a dilemma isn't it?

If you take a great artist, Titian for example, he only really got to paint what other, richer, powerful people paid him to paint. The idea that artists should be able to do what they want and still make money is a fairly modern one. I'm feeling touchy about this having recently paid a tenner to see the Emin exhibition at the Hayward. Celebrity she may be, and that's where the money comes from, but she certainly hasn't got enough talent or enough to say to fill the Hayward, in my opinion. If you're making art then offer it as such and don't expect to get paid unless you are fulfilling a particular commission. It may have merit and value but that value is not necessarily monetary. If you are making graphics then say so and copyright it and charge accordingly. If you do and it catches on you will make cash.

(twattybanjo, Mon 13 Jun 2011, 14:34, archived)

It's an impossible subject to discuss on the internet

and an equally difficult one to discuss in sensible company
the outcome tends to be "you really do have to be a bit of a sadist to pick up a crayon"

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HappyToast Groat froth, Mon 13 Jun 2011, 14:53, archived)

Ha! I have this conversation quite often.

My partner is a graphic designer for a packaging company which is about as commercial as "art" is going to get but of course she draws and paints and photoshops many beautiful and skilful things too which make her no money at all. I have had one thing I made go viral and have had one thing I made stolen. The latter was a Flash game, not an image, I made which J2O nicked, stuck new graphics on but the background code was all mine. The annoying thing about it is I created the initial game as a free tutorial on how to write actiopnscript for flash games of that type. Artisits aren't the only ones being ripped off HT.

(twattybanjo, Mon 13 Jun 2011, 15:16, archived)

I would include coders of games in "artists" (any creative person)

it's generally a pointless activity to most, yet brings great pleasure to many, but monetarily is utterly worthless to most who feel piracy (of music, game code, images, whatever) perfectly acceptable no matter how much time and effort is put in to it.

yet someone sat at a desk wasting time playing solitaire/texting and hoping the boss doesn't see is worth well over the minimum wage.

it's a wacky world we live in and no mistake

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HappyToast Groat froth, Mon 13 Jun 2011, 15:24, archived)

I cannot do anything but completely agree with your sentiment

but my coding a tutorial which was nicked isn't the same as what you have called "art". My personal definition of art is if it is offered as art I will open heartedly accept it as such. This has some advantages but also drawbacks, not least going to some truly awful "installations". But coding Flash games for a tutorial isn't offered as art, potential memes aren't offered as art. The bringing of pleasure and therefore commercial value is a different subject all together. Realising what we do may have monetary value, preferably before we post it and some other bastard makes all the money is a different thing and not really about art or artists.

(twattybanjo, Mon 13 Jun 2011, 15:52, archived)