have you actually taken the time to look into 9/11?
seriously? apart from parroting the opinions you see around you? issues like who funded the hijackers which the 9/11 commission deemed of little importance ?
www.b3ta.com/questions/offtopic/post230260
(, Thu 28 Aug 2008, 16:28, Reply)
"apart from parroting the opinions you see around you? "
Where do you get off telling people that? You really do consider yourself some sort of guru dont ya?
(
The magic of chutney Shakes it like an Instagram filter!, Thu 28 Aug 2008, 16:41,
Reply)
far from it
but I have gotten off my arse and examined the facts for myself and provided sources for my allegations
www.b3ta.com/questions/offtopic/post230260
like I said have you actually bothered to examine what your talking about before you slag off so called "911 truthers" ?
(, Thu 28 Aug 2008, 16:43, Reply)
You self important, sanctimonious little bleeder
I really do keep hoping you are a parody....
(
The magic of chutney Shakes it like an Instagram filter!, Thu 28 Aug 2008, 16:45,
Reply)
fair enough
:0)
I guess either people are bothered to look into it for themselves, or they're not
"All truth passes through three stages
First, it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer
.
(, Thu 28 Aug 2008, 16:51, Reply)
don't toss pearls to swines, they care not for what they eat. ;)
(
war3n3xt < I'm with stupid, Thu 28 Aug 2008, 17:59,
Reply)
That's 'truth'.
Edit: wait... you're actually using that to claim that being ridiculed is evidence that you're right?
(
Newington, Thu 28 Aug 2008, 18:27,
Reply)
ha
we've all seen loose change mate
(
boyo81 was laying down his ordinance on, Thu 28 Aug 2008, 18:40,
Reply)
you'd the the funniest guy on b3ta
if you weren't actually serious.
(, Thu 28 Aug 2008, 16:46, Reply)
cocktoberfest is that way way way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
;)
(
war3n3xt < I'm with stupid, Thu 28 Aug 2008, 18:05,
Reply)
Oh piss off.
I have had endless, endless discussions about 9/11, both online and in real life. My girlfriend believes in all this conspiracy nonsense so believe me, its come up. As a result, yes, thank you, I have taken the time to look into 9/11, so don't arrogantly self-righteously assume I haven't.
The conclusion I came to after looking into it further was that 9/11 happened because the US foreign policy, as well as US ties with, and military in, Saudi Arabia of the last fifty years pissed off a group of fundamentalist Islamic terrorists.
Your posts on here are pure cliche truther nonsense that you can find on any message board on the net, and it's getting a little boring now.
(
the nugga says please and thank you, Thu 28 Aug 2008, 17:04,
Reply)
ok fair point
so who funded the fundamentalist Islamic terrorists?
The British-born Islamist militant, omar Sheikh is charged with the murder of wall street journalist daniel peaL. previously, sheikh was the person responsible for wiring $100,000 to the 9/11 lead hijacker, mohammed atta in the months before the attacks. Sheikh wired this money on the instructions of general mahmood ahmed, the then head of the isi, pakistan’s inter services intelligence agency
(see sources; (1) ,(2) ,(3), (4), (9) below)
on the actual day of 9/11 general ahmed, the man responsible for instructing the money transfer, was in washington DC and in the weeks leading upto the attacks he had a series of top level meetings at the pentagon, the national security council and the white house with the head of the cia george tenet and the under secretary of state for political affairs marc grossman
(see sources; (1), (6), (7), (9) below)
when the wall street journal exposed general ahmed for sending the money to the hijackers, President Pervez Musharraf forced him to ‘retire’ (see sources; (1), (2), (3), (4) , (8), (9) below)
these details are conveniently kept away from public scrutiny and there is huge pressure on anyone that dares turn whistle blower within the ranks of the FBI. Despite this there are still individuals willing to risk all. Like sibel edmonds, the former fbi intelligence translator. she tried to reveal the cover-up of intelligence that names some of the culprits who orchestrated 911 and information that shows clear foreknowledge of the attacks not mentioned in the 9/11 Commission report .
she is under 2 gagging orders, issued by JOhn Ashcroft, that stop her from testifying in court. she is on record as saying:
“My translations of the 9/11 intercepts included [terrorist] money laundering, detailed and date-specific information ... if they were to do real investigations, we would see several significant high-level criminal prosecutions in this country [the US] ... and believe me, they will do everything to cover this up”
(see sources; (1), (9), (10), (11), (12), (13), (14) below)
in addiition to sibel, fbi agent Robert Wright has also been stopped from releasing his 500-page manuscript which details the ignored intelligence which led to the attacks
The FBI, has even refused to give the manuscript to Senator Shelby, vice-chairman of the joint intelligence committee charged with investigating America's 9/11 intelligence failures.
(see sources; (1), (9), (15), (16) below)
for years the cia had a close relationship with gen ahmed and used the isi as a conduit to pump billions of dollars into militant Islamist groups
DANIEL ELLSBERG, THE FORMER US DEFENCE department whistleblower has stated: "It seems to me quite plausible that Pakistan was quite involved in this ... To say Pakistan is, to me, to say CIA because ... it's hard to say that the ISI knew something that the CIA had no knowledge of."
W ith CIA backing, the ISI has developed, since the early 1980s, into a state within a state which wields enormous power andThe case of Ahmed confirms that parts of the ISI directly supported and financed the 911 hijackers and it has long been established that the ISI has acted as go-between in intelligence operations on behalf of the CIA.
(see sources; (1), (9), (17), (18), (19), (20) below)
Senator Bob Graham, chairman of the Senate select committee on intelligence, is on record as saying:"I think there is very compelling evidence that at least some of the terrorists were assisted, not just in financing ... by a sovereign foreign government."
Horst Ehmke, former coordinator of the West German secret services, added: "The Terrorists could not have carried out such an operation with four hijacked planes without the support of a secret service."
That might give meaning to the reaction on 9/11 of Richard Clarke, the White House counter-terrorism chief, when he saw the passenger lists later on the day itself he said: "I was stunned ... that there were ‘al-Qaida’ operatives on board using names that the FBI knew were al-Qaida.” It was just that, as Dale Watson, head of counter-terrorism at the FBI told him, the "CIA forgot to tell us about them".
here we have connections between the intelligence services and the 911 attacks - but what about the other so called ‘Al-Qaeda’ attacks, like the london bombings in 2005?
on The July 29 2005 edition of FOX News Channel's Day Side programme Former Justice Dept. prosecutor and Terror expert John Loftus revealed the mastermind of the 7/7 London Bombings, Haroon Rashid Aswat, was a British Intelligence Asset double agent.
Loftus revealed that Aswat was part of the
Al-Muhajiroun group and assistant to head, abu hamza .Al-Muhajiroun, which means ‘The Emigrants’, was the recruiting arm of ‘Al-Qaeda’ in London and had formed during the Kosovo crisis, during which, Fundamentalist Muslim Leaders (Or what is now referred to as
‘Al Qaeda’ ) were recruited by MI6 to fight in Kosovo.
(see sources; (1), (9), (21), (22, (23) below)
Loftus stated that "...back in the late 1990s, the leaders all worked for British intelligence in Kosovo. British intelligence actually hired some Al-Qaeda guys to help defend the Muslim rights in Albania and in Kosovo. That's when Al-Muhajiroun got started." (see sources; (21) below)
in 1999 Aswat came to America trying to set up a terrorist training school in Oregon. when authorities tried to act the headquarters of the US Justice Department ordered the Seattle prosecutors not to touch him because he was working for British intelligence
(see sources; (1), (9), (21), (22, (23) below)
here we have strong links with the cia, ISI and MI6 in the two attacks - but the similarities do not end there. both attacks were mirrored by training exercises simulating the exact same events
on 911 September 11, 2001, NORAD held ‘Live-Fly’ Training Exercises called Vigilant Guardian and OPERATION NORTHERN VIGILANCE simulating hijacked planes hitting buildings on the Northern seaboard. this had the effect of preventing the hijacked flights from being intercepted by Norad fighters - as they thought it was part of the exercise (see sources; (1), (9), (24), (25), (26), (27), (28) below)
and in london On the evening of 7th July 2005, information came to light about a private company , Visor Consultants, running a terror rehearsal operation in London at the time that real explosions were reported to have occurred on the transport network. the stations used in the exercise were the exact ones used by the real bombers.
(see sources; (1), (29), (30) below)
SOURCES:
(1) - Michael Meacher MP, environment minister 1997-2003, article; ‘the pakistan connection’, [The Guardian, Thursday July 22 2004]
Michael Meacher MP, article; ‘This war on terrorism is bogus’
[The Guardian, Saturday September 6, 2003 ]
(2) - ISI Director Lt. Gen. Mahmood Ahmed is replaced after its discovered he instructed Sheikh to transfer $100,000 into hijacker Mohamed Atta’s bank account prior to 9/11. This is according to Indian intelligence, which REPORTS the FBI has privately confirmed the story. [Press Trust of India, 10/8/2001; Times of India, 10/9/2001; India Today, 10/15/2001; Daily Excelsior (Jammu), The story is not widely reported in Western countries, though it makes the Wall Street Journal. [Australian, 10/10/2001; Agence France-Presse, 10/10/2001; Wall Street Journal, 10/10/2001] It is reported in Pakistan as well. [Daily excelsior (Karachi), 10/8/2001] The Northern Alliance also repeats the claim in late October. [Federal News Service, 10/31/2001] In Western countries, the usual explanation is that Mahmood is fired for being too close to the Taliban. [London Times, 10/9/2001; Guardian, 10/9/2001] There is evidence some ISI officers may have known of a plan to destroy the WTC as early as July 1999. Two other ISI leaders, Lt. Gen. Mohammed Aziz Khan and Lt. Gen. Muzaffar Usmani, are sidelined on the same day as Mahmood [French author Bernard-Henri Levy and Scott-Clark, 2007, pp. 317-319] [Fox News, 10/8/2001] also reported in [Sunday Herald (Glasgow), 2/24/2002; London Times, 4/21/2002]
(3) - Summer 2000: Sheikh Frequently Calls ISI Director Lt. Gen. Mahmood Ahmed in 2000. [Source: Reuters] In 2002, French author Bernard-Henri Levy is presented evidence by government officials in New Delhi, India, that Sheikh makes repeated calls to ISI Director Lt. Gen. Mahmood Ahmed during the summer of 2000. Later, Levy gets confirmation from sources in Washington regarding these calls that the information he was given in India is correct. He notes that someone in the United Arab Emirates using a variety of aliases sends Mohamed Atta slightly over $100,000 between June and September of this year and the timing of these phone calls and the money transfers may have been the source of news reports that Mahmood Ahmed ordered Sheikh to send $100,000 to Mohamed Atta However, he also notes that there is evidence of Sheikh sending Atta $100,000 in August 2001 , so the reports could refer to that, or both $100,000 transfers could involve Mahmood Ahmed, Sheikh, and Mohamed Atta. [Who Killed Daniel Pearl? by Bernard-Henri Levy pp. 320-324]
(4) - “It is becoming clear that both the Taliban and al-Qaeda would have found it difficult to have continued functioning—including the latter group’s terrorist activities—without substantial aid and support from Islamabad [Pakistan].” [Jane's Intelligence Digest, 9/20/2001]
(5) - September 10, 2001: Pakistan Guards Osama as He Receives Medical Treatment CBS later reports that on this day, bin Laden is admitted to a military hospital in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, for kidney dialysis treatment. Pakistani military forces guard bin Laden. They also move out all the regular staff in the urology department and send in a secret team to replace them. It is not known how long he stays there. [CBS News, 1/28/2002]
(6) - September 11, 2001: Intelligence Committee Chairs Meet with Gen. Mahmood Ahmed . as the Attack Occurs ISI Director Lt. Gen. Mahmood Ahmed is at a breakfast meeting at the Capitol with the chairmen of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, Senator Bob Graham and Representative Porter Goss ([Salon, 9/14/2001; Washington Post, 5/18/2002] [Descent into Chaos: by Ahmed Rashid pp. 26-27]
(7) - Graham and Goss will later co-head the joint House-Senate investigation into the 9/11 attacks, which will focus on Saudi government involvement in the 9/11 attacks, but will say almost nothing about possible Pakistani government connections to al-Qaeda and the 9/11 attacks [Washington Post, 7/11/2002]
(8) - Lieutenant General Mahmood Ahmed, a close ally of Musharraf [Guardian, 10/9/2001; STeve Coll, GHost wars, pp. 504-505]
(9) - www.cooperativeresearch.org complete 911 timeline
(10) - high-ranking State Department officials help Pakistan’s ISI “moles” in US military and academic institutions according to FBI translator Sibel Edmonds
[Sunday Times (London), 1/6/2008]
(11) - The high-ranking State Department official who is not named by the Sunday Times is said to be Marc Grossman by both Larisa Alexandrovna of Raw Story and former CIA officer Philip Giraldi, writing in the American Conservative.
[Raw Story, 1/20/2008; American Conservative, 1/28/2008]
(12) - April 2001: FBI translators Sibel Edmonds and Behrooz Sarshar Learn Al-Qaeda Suicide Pilots Plan to Hit Skyscrapers in US [WorldNetDaily, 3/24/2004; Salon, 3/26/2004; WorldNetDaily, 4/6/2004; Village Voice, 4/14/2004]
(13) - September 20, 2001 sibel edmonds Sees Pattern of Deliberate Failure within FBI [Washington Post, 6/19/2002] Senator Charles Grassley says “She’s credible and the reason I feel she’s very credible is because people within the FBI have corroborated a lot of her story.” [CBS News, 10/25/2002; New York Post, 10/26/2002]
(14) - sibel edmonds website: www.justacitizen.com ; sibel edmonds ;wikipedia
On October 18, 2002, Attorney General John Ashcroft invoked the State Secrets Privilege in order to prevent disclosure of the nature of Edmonds' work
(15) - Robin wright discovers evidence that some of the FBI intelligence agents who stalled and obstructed his investigation were the same FBI agents who misrepresented the FISA petitions. [Judicial Watch, 9/11/2002]
Wright Says FBI Unit Is Making ‘Virtually No Effort’ to Neutralize Known Terrorists Inside the US [Cybercast News Service, 5/30/2002; Federal News Service, 5/30/2002]
(16) - September 11, 2001-October 2001: FBI Agent Wright Gagged by FBI in Wake of 9/11,
May 11, 2002: FBI Agent Wright Sues FBI for Blocking Book Criticizing FBI Failures
[New York Times, 5/12/2002; Federal News Service, 5/30/2002; Robert G. Wright, Jr., v. Federal Bureau of Investigation, 5/16/2005]
(17) - The ISI grows so powerful on this money, that “even by the shadowy standards of spy agencies, the ISI is notorious. It is commonly branded ‘a state within the state,’ or Pakistan’s ‘invisible government.’” [Time, 5/6/2002]
(18) - The Pakistani ISI starts a special cell of agents who use profits from heroin production for covert actions WITH THE COLLUSION OF THE CIA. The heroin is then smuggled into the Soviet controlled areas, [Financial Times, 8/10/2001]
(19) - Prominent Figures See Ties Between the ISI, 9/11, and Even the CIA [Guardian, 7/22/2004]
(20) - 1980s ISI-CIA collaboration in Afghanistan. - the ISI trained “militants” to attack the Soviet Union ; well over 100,000 Islamic militants were trained in Pakistan between 1986 and 1992 in camps constructed and overseen by the CIA and MI6,
[THE tELeGRAPH By Rahul Bedi 26/09/2001]
(21) - Former Justice Dept. prosecutor John Loftus on July 29 2005 edition
of FOX News Channel's Day Side programme
view here on youtube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoxPY3H5EqA
On FOX News Channel's Day Side, Terrorism Expert John Loftus revealed that Haroon Rashid Aswat, the suspect wanted by British Police for "masterminding" the July 7th London bombings and July 21st attempted bombings is in fact an asset of MI6, the British Secret Service. According to Loftus, Aswat has been under the protection of MI6 for many years.
full transcripots at www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=1425
(22) - The Insider, "US regime actively blocked attempts to stop London bomber",
26 July 2005. - Why did high-level US officials want to protect Haroon Aswat, one of the four London bombers? US Justice Department prosecutors planned to arrest and detain Aswat, but were ordered not to do so, and these strange orders came directly from the highest level. The fact that at least one of the four alleged terrorists visited the USA before the 7/7 attacks is beyond dispute. In contrast, claims by Western intelligence services that the bombers visited Pakistan have been exposed as false.
(23) - Seattle Times, "Effort here to charge London suspect was blocked", 24 July 2005.
(24) - Agency planned exercise on Sept. 11 built around a plane crashing into a building
[By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer ]
the Associated Press later had to admit the fact that the CIA were running drills of crashing planes into buildings on the morning of 9/11.
OPERATION VIGILANT GUARDIAN: This exercise simulated hijacked planes in the north eastern sector and started to coincide with 9/11. Lt. Col. Dawne Deskins, NORAD unit's airborne control and warning officer, was overseeing the exercise. At 8:40am she took a call from Boston Center which said it had a hijacked airliner. Her first words, as quoted by Newhouse News Service were, "It must be part of the exercise." This is another example of how the numerous drills on the morning of 9/11 deliberately distracted NORAD so that the real hijacked planes couldn't be intercepted in time.
(25) - September 11, 2001: NORAD on Alert for Emergency Exercises
Lieutenant Colonel Dawne Deskins and other day shift employees at NORAD’s Northeast Air Defence Sector (NEADS) in Rome, NY, start their workday. NORAD is conducting a week-long, large-scale exercise called Vigilant Guardian. [Newhouse News Service, 1/25/2002]
Vanity Fair reports that the “day’s exercise” (presumably Vigilant Guardian) is “designed to run a range of scenarios, including a ‘traditional’ simulated hijack in which politically motivated perpetrators commandeer an aircraft, land on a Cuba-like island, and seek asylum.” [Vanity Fair, 8/1/2006]
Deskins and other NORAD officials later are initially confused about whether the 9/11 attacks are real or part of the exercise
(26) - (9:00 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Northern Vigilance Operation False Blips on Radar Screens - many minutes into the real 9/11 attacks, false radar blips causing confusion among NORAD personnel. Additional details, such as whose radar screens have false blips and over what duration, are unknown. .[Toronto Star, 12/9/2001; National Post, 10/19/2002]
(27) - NORAD confirms that “it was running two mock drills on Sept. 11 at various radar sites and Command Centers in the United States and Canada,” one of these being Vigilant Guardian.[New Jersey Star-Ledger, 12/5/2003]
(28) -At least one military exercise this morning is reported to include simulated information injected onto radar screens (see (9:00 a.m.) September 11, 2001). At the current time, despite the earlier crash of Flight 11, NORAD has yet to cancel a major exercise it is in the middle of (see After 9:03 a.m. September 11, 2001).
[Air War Over America: Sept. 11 Alters Face Of Air Defence Mission (Hardcover)
by Leslie Filson 2004, pp. 59]
(29) - BBC Radio 5 Live's Drivetime programme 7th July 2005
Peter Power Managing Director of Visor Consultants the private firm running the terror rehearsal operation on Radio 5 Live's Drivetime - from transcript :
POWER: ‘...at half-past nine this morning we were actually running an exercise for, er, over, a company of over a thousand people in London based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning,
PETER ALLEN: To get this quite straight, you were running an exercise to see how you would cope with this and it happened while you were running the exercise?
POWER: Precisely, and it was, er, about half-past nine this morning, we planned this for a company and for obvious reasons I don't want to reveal their name but they're listening and they'll know it. And we had a room full of crisis managers for the first time they'd met and so within five minutes we made a pretty rapid decision, 'this is the real one' and so we went through the correct drills of activating crisis management procedures to jump from 'slow time' to 'quick time' thinking and so on.”
The client for whom the terror rehearsal was being organised ha snever been revealed
(30) - www.cooperativeresearch.org complete 7/7 timeline
(, Thu 28 Aug 2008, 17:06, Reply)