Seems mild.
Thought they'd been killing off Africans for decades what with testing, eugenics and such.
(, Wed 2 Feb 2011, 15:19, Share, Reply)
Right...
Sorry - I should edit that for clarity.
Eugenics?
Bobbins.
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TheAlmightyBeev, Wed 2 Feb 2011, 15:33,
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Great, thanks.
Do you know what would be evidence of eugenics in Africa?
Some evidence. Any at all.
Population is increasing, often in the poorest areas, so if anyone is trying eugenics in Africa, they're rubbish at it.
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TheAlmightyBeev, Wed 2 Feb 2011, 16:36,
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Gosh Beev
I'm not a numbers guy but I might notice when the guy funding the third world vaccination programs is also a population control nut. www.naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=A155D113455FAC882A3290536575C723
(, Wed 2 Feb 2011, 17:01, Share, Reply)
Oh, yes - I've seen that before
It's generally misunderstood by people who choose to misunderstand it, and wish to suggest something sinister.
Also - population control does not equal eugenics. One of these is highy desirable, the other is not.
And, there's no evidence of any kind of eugenics going on in Africa, but feel free to continue insinuating there is.
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TheAlmightyBeev, Wed 2 Feb 2011, 17:34,
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If you honestly believe that AIDS is man made...
...you do not understand much about AIDS.
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TheAlmightyBeev, Wed 2 Feb 2011, 18:30,
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I don't think it's fair
to interpret a single contextually vague quote as an accidental admission of support for eugenics programs.
It looks like there may be reliable evidence that vaccines have been used to sterilize populations (this is awful).
But it's clear from a quick google search that the relationship between vaccines and population control that Gates was talking about is based on theories about the relationship between infant mortality and population growth, specifically the proposal that high infant mortality leads to larger family sizes. There isn't a consensus on whether this holds true or not so you could criticize his reasoning, but it's pretty obviously this that Gates was talking about, and not a secret plan to sterilize people worldwide.
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the prick of misery pierced my foot on a spiiiike on, Wed 2 Feb 2011, 17:49,
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Do you have a link for the vaccine/sterilisation thing?
I've not seen convincing evidence myself.
Evidence of mistakes, yes; cut corners, certainly; ignorance, without a doubt.
Intent to sterilise through vaccination programmes? Not yet.
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TheAlmightyBeev, Wed 2 Feb 2011, 17:56,
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ok
You're right- I had just seen mention of cases where people claimed there were sterilizing agents found in vaccines (especially one in the Philippines in the '90s).
I can't find any actual published research that supports this. I ended up looking through "Patterns of vaccination acceptance" by Strefland (et al), published in Social Science & Medicine 1999.
It lists a bunch of cases where rumors like this were disseminated by groups like the Roman Catholic Church. It says that the rumors were found to be false, but I didn't see any citations.
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the prick of misery pierced my foot on a spiiiike on, Wed 2 Feb 2011, 18:14,
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It doesn't help when
Ted Turner claims a need to reduce world population by 90% on national tv.
(, Wed 2 Feb 2011, 18:23, Share, Reply)
I don't understand
If it turns out that large family sizes really are a result of poor living conditions, surely improving those living conditions and controlling population growth would help abate the problem of scarce resources. This doesn't have anything to do with sterilization or murder- quite the opposite. So I don't see anything unethical about it.
Do you have some support for an argument that population size isn't causally related to scarcity of resources? That would be the only thing that would convince me that Gates and Turner are saying anything wrong.
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the prick of misery pierced my foot on a spiiiike on, Wed 2 Feb 2011, 19:09,
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Oh my
if they're so freakin concerned about these people they could feed, clothe and house every last one of them instead of playing god with their needles and propaganda.
(, Wed 2 Feb 2011, 19:26, Share, Reply)
You're saying that vaccinating children against potentially fatal diseases is playing god (which I assume means some sort of abuse of medical technology). At this point I'm not sure but think you must be joking- I probably should have caught on sooner.
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the prick of misery pierced my foot on a spiiiike on, Wed 2 Feb 2011, 19:44,
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