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This is a link post Funny and informative look at the case for Scottish Independence
Free of anger or bile, and with a pretty decent soundtrack. Well worth a watch
(Godwin's Lawyer is more evil than Hitler, Wed 11 May 2011, 22:06, , Reply)
This is a normal post I'll watch this later, I'm too sleepy now
My opinion before watching is that it serves nobodies interest to have Scotland become separate from Britain. Last time I checked majority Scotland agreed with me.
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 11 May 2011, 22:26, , Reply)
This is a normal post I haven't came down on one side or the other yet - there's pros and cons to both sides
The video's definitely worth a watch though

Even if you don't agree with the idea in principle, it's good to see Mel Gibson and the horrible 'Scotland homecoming' campaign getting the slagging they deserve. Also, it contains the 'It's shite being Scottish' scene from Trainspotting. What's not to love?
 (Godwin's Lawyer is more evil than Hitler, Wed 11 May 2011, 22:28, , Reply)
This is a normal post So what is the number one good thing for Britain and Scotland if Scotland leave?

(I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 11 May 2011, 22:49, , Reply)
This is a normal post Discussing country borders
from a "good" and "bad" perspective is probably useless. Nationhood has much more to do with feelings and relationships than it has with either positive or negative values.

You could have asked the same of the act of union itself, and gotten the same unintelligible answers.
 (I helped save b3ta! Claws of Doom I am no longer infected, Wed 11 May 2011, 23:02, , Reply)
This is a normal post There's a lot more to it than just feelings
I think that underestimates the issue somewhat. There's many sound economic reasons both for and against separation from the Union, which could be classed as "good" or "bad". Also not sure where these "unintelligible" answers are coming from - care to elaborate?
 (Godwin's Lawyer is more evil than Hitler, Wed 11 May 2011, 23:09, , Reply)
This is a normal post Fine, beneficial then, from any perspective except nationalism (so economic etc)
The number one benefit for Scotland and Britain if Scotland leave the union.

Nationalism should be abandoned as a political tool, and preferably as a concept altogether except in the context of history lessons.
It's is outdated and makes me unreasonably angry, especially when used as a reason for anything in political discourse. It's BOLLOCKS.

grrrrrrr
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 11 May 2011, 23:11, , Reply)
This is a normal post The SNP (the main party in favour of independence) aren't a Nationalist party, by the way
SNP stands for 'Scottish National Party,' not 'Scottish Nationalist Party.' Alex Salmond has said that Scottish people include those living in Scotland who think of themselves as Scottish - there's absolutely no Nationalism at play here. Accusations of such are often flung to muddy the waters
 (Godwin's Lawyer is more evil than Hitler, Wed 11 May 2011, 23:14, , Reply)
This is a normal post Yeah I understand that SNP are a legit political party
I was responding to CoD's use of the term 'Nationhood'
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 11 May 2011, 23:20, , Reply)
This is a normal post The benefits for Scotland's easy
Control of it's own economy, not being dragged into unnecessary wars, and not being ruled by a Tory-led government no-one in Scotland voted for (only 1 Tory MP in the whole of Scotland, and that's down in the borders)

As for the benefit to Britain as a whole, well, that's a lot less tangible. On the one hand, Westminster would no longer receive North Sea Oil Revenue, but on the other hand, it would resolve the West Lothian question. I suppose the benefits all depend on your perspective
 (Godwin's Lawyer is more evil than Hitler, Wed 11 May 2011, 23:06, , Reply)
This is a normal post Lothian question should not really be discussed in this debate
and certainly not used as a reason for Scotland to bog off out of Britain. If it is serious enough then it can be resolved with Scotland remaining in Britain.

I'd love to stop and chat but I'm really sleepy now and have to go beddy byes cos I'm working on the morrow
 (I helped save b3ta! Hellzapoppin, Wed 11 May 2011, 23:19, , Reply)
This is a normal post his most compelling argument was the totally different political desires of the scottish electorate
Which is depressing since if scotland left us then i guess the tory proportion of the 'british' vote would go up.
don't leave us :(
 (I helped save b3ta! Mousing, Wed 11 May 2011, 23:09, , Reply)
This is a normal post Hahaha, this is probably the most convincing argument against independence
I'd hate to leave the rest of the country in the hands of the Tories for the next hundred years

Like I say, as a Scotsman myself, I'm not fully decided either way, but I can see the merits in both positions
 (Godwin's Lawyer is more evil than Hitler, Wed 11 May 2011, 23:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post For me it's the most convincing argument for independance
Just the thought of leaving the English in perpetual loony right wing rule just fills me with karmic joy.
 (I helped save b3ta! slartifartfast When all around are losing their heads, duck., Thu 12 May 2011, 11:00, , Reply)
This is a normal post I liked that :) I apologize for the following rant ha.
I've sort of altered my stance on this over the last few years. I regard my self as British, as I have family and heritage from all over the island as well as Ireland. And so it used to annoy me quite a lot when Scottish friends would say "I'm not British I'm Scottish", given the political, geographical, historic and migratory relationship we have in the here and now, I've softened to that personal identity choice now though, after all I'm technically English but I don't place much emphasis on it out of my own choice. But yeah, currently I cant see any real political or economic argument which clinches it either way to justify or oppose an immediate break in the union; other than just the whim of the populace (its self the only justification you need).

I like the fact I have connections across our islands, that wont change whether the union breaks or not, I do worry however about the strength of the Labour party vote in England though, so thats probably my main concern about independence.

I think the issue needs to be seen in a much broader context, and thats the problem with independence movements, by their nature theyr'e far too provincial, it doesn't take into account the fluid and complex relationship individual regions from, Country Derry to Kent, have. England is a massive country with a huge populace, its self far more diverse than any broader differences you can find between Scotland and England etc. I think it's best to see governance issues like this in terms of population sizes. So if you break the union down to the individual regions, say Yorkshire which has a bigger economy and larger population than Scotland, or even the Republic of Ireland, you could argue that Yorkshire or the south west have as much right to self determination as the Welsh or Scottish do. So why not have a situation where we have more devolution (real devolution unlike what was proposed back in 2004) break up the disproportionate swing the south east of England has (to be made worse under an English only Parliament). Have semi-autonomous regions handling their affairs in ways which work best for them, overseen by a PR elected Federal Government. Scotland gets the powers it deserves, as do the rest of the regions. The Tories wont get the disproportionate power that they wield over everyone, but still get the majority power they deserve in the regions that typicaly vote for them. The economy stays the same (probably improving for each region), Foreign Affairs stay the same etc. Under that system every one is happy, we still have the cultural economic and 'emotional' links to each other. And infact it would move the independance issue away from a be all or end all choice towards one that is much more centered on the economic etc facts.
 (I helped save b3ta! Jorvic, Thu 12 May 2011, 1:37, , Reply)