Interviewed in relation to a murder investigation
While I was at university in Bristol I heard from my parents in Walsall that one of my neighbours had been found stabbed in the neck with a barbeque skewer in cupboard under the stairs. Years pass and the police don't have a clue who it was, so they try to find fingerprint evidence and set about cutting people out of the list.

This results in me getting a visit from two lovely plods. We had a bit of banter, they questioned the traffic cones in my student flat but not the bag of weed, couldn't be better. When it came to taking fingerprints and DNA I was happy to help, after all this is was a friend's granddad. However I was offered the exciting opportunity to be part of the national DNA database.

Me: But what if I want to commit a serious crime in future?
Them: But you're a computer science student, there's no DNA evidence for computer crime.
Me: Still, it doesn't sound like I have any reason to agree to this.
Them: Okay, it will only be used for this investigation and destroyed afterwards.

You can see where this is going, can't you? A few years later I was curious so asked if it had been destroyed. Nope, there on the databases. It seems DNA evidence is only destroyed on the chief constable's orders in "exceptional circumstances". Not exactly the coolest way, but this amounts to being assaulted by the police. It took over six months of complaining and an internal investigation to get them to make good on their word.

The police really do seem to be doing their best to destroy public good-will.
( Ungersven would support SpankyHanky's patreon, Sat 7 May 2011, 12:17, 13 replies)

I know this is an unpopular view to have
but I have no issue with the DNA data base.
If it hadn't been for Steven Wright, the man killing women in Ipswich, having his fingers in a till a few years ago, and therefore ending up on the DNA data base he wouldn't have been caught.
( Mrs Entity is in hiding., Sat 7 May 2011, 14:18, closed)

I disagree.
I do think that people get rather too excited about genetic privacy, but the retention of DNA evidence strikes me as unjustified.

First, there's no reason to suppose that Wright wouldn't have been caught. He may not have been caught in the same way, but that's not the same as saying that he wouldn't be caught.

Second, the problem with the DNA retention policy as it stands is that it's (still) too undiscriminating: until recently, it made no distinction between the innocent and the guilty, or between different crimes. It's changed a little now, but it's still a very broad-brush thing. This means that just about anyone can find their DNA retained for no particularly good reason. I don't like the idea of the police being able to do things for no particularly good reason.

Third, DNA is a very useful evidential tool, but it's not the only evidential tool, and it's scary how little juries (and lawyers) understand about its significance. It is certainly not a foolproof way to pare the guilty from the innocent.

Fourth, the retention of genetic information by the police assumes that it's up to the suspect to prove their innocence, granted that there's several ways in which DNA might arrive at a crime scene. And having the onus that way around seems to me to be grotesque.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Sat 7 May 2011, 14:25, closed)

They had no clue, really no clue who was murdering these women.
Remember he killed two women in one day.
Yes he might have been caught eventually but how many other women would have died?

I speak as someone who knows both the families of the murdered women and the police investigating the case.
( Mrs Entity is in hiding., Sat 7 May 2011, 14:35, closed)

I don't know - and nor does anyone else.
So it's not really a strong foundation from which to build the case. Moreover, had he not been arrested before, the database would have been no use anyway.

Changing the subject slightly, did I dream it, or are you something theatrical? And in that case, does your knowing the Ipswich people relate to London Road at the NT? I really want to see that, but doubt I'm going to get the chance unless it tours.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Sat 7 May 2011, 14:41, closed)

I was something theatrical once.
I know the families involved because some of their children go to schools where I teach / have taught. The police involved are friends and neighbours.

The London Road play was made without the consent of the families, therefore I don't want anything to do with it.
( Mrs Entity is in hiding., Sat 7 May 2011, 14:50, closed)

There is the small issue
that it is not infallible, a match on its own doesn't mean much, and given the tendency of police investigation to play into confirmatory bias, it does increase the risk of innocent people being harassed.

The question then might become how much harassment are we willing to endure, and should we make more of an effort to compensate people for this haranguing. Harassing and haranguing that does include locking innocent people up and seriously fucking their lives up.

Then again, they're not quite sure how sound fingerprints are either.
( Sextant goes to him is emotionally erect, on this day, Sat 7 May 2011, 16:23, closed)

The fingerprints of the innocent
are not retained as a matter of course, as far as I know.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Sat 7 May 2011, 16:27, closed)

I don't know about fingerprints
But if you are arrested on suspicion of a recordable offence the DNA sample which is taken becomes a permanent record, at least in England and Wales.
(Captain Skippy pooed in a bag and left it on your doorstep, Sun 8 May 2011, 9:10, closed)

Which is kind of the point I was making...

( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Sun 8 May 2011, 10:44, closed)

Yup.
The ECtHR had something to say about the storage of DNA data last year - basically, the government was told off for being rather too keen to retain information; but the policy on retention is not much more liberal now.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Sat 7 May 2011, 14:19, closed)

What a coincidence
I remember this well, it was 3 days after I got the letter saying they'd destroyed my records.
( Ungersven would support SpankyHanky's patreon, Sun 8 May 2011, 11:08, closed)

So, they destroyed it, and then you raped a nun at Alton Towers?

( Sextant goes to him is emotionally erect, on this day, Sat 7 May 2011, 16:18, closed)

That's the plan
That'll get god out of her.
( Ungersven would support SpankyHanky's patreon, Sat 7 May 2011, 22:26, closed)