Do you reckon participation in any form of coordinated activity is pointless?
Not having a go, just wondering.
( wotofco pissing in your swimming pool, Sun 14 Nov 2010, 23:55, 1 reply)

Well,
thats quite a broad way of describing it. I mean, I enjoy things like going for a meal with my friends, which takes a certain degree of co-ordination...

I'm guessing though you meant demonstrative activites, in which case, yes for the most part - and in this country - I do.

You see, I am of the belief that whilst we may be one of the richest and most "comfortable" countries on earth, there is definitely a negative side to that when it comes to us exercising our moral standpoints. Case in point being what I said above about the vast majority of people NOT protesting. We live in a democracy that is (supposedly) ruled by majority opinion. Or lethargy in this case. Whichever way you want to look at it, the (in)actions of the majority reflect the attitude of the nation. Why rock the boat when it's not really going to affect the quality of our lives in a significantly threatening way? This isn't 1939, and we don't have to leave home and fight nazis anymore. Most people would rather just stay at home than get involved. And yes, you can argue that Britain going to war and all the other major decisions that the majority of people just glossed over have indeed had a significant impact on us all, least of all by contributing to the shitty economic situation we now find ourselves in, but ultimately we're still comfortable. I still have a roof over my head. I was made redundant because the company I worked for at the time couldn't afford the number of staff it had, but I got another job. I could still feed myself, and live like a middle class white man living in a first world country. I think what I'm trying to say is what is there to die for when you have everything already? Why bother risking anything to make the lives of people you don't even know, in a country you'll never visit, better? Or even just less shit? That's why 90% of people didn't bother demonstrating against the war. They thought "fuck it, doesn't affect me" and the problem is - in this country - they're pretty much right, as shitty as that is.

And even taking that into account, I don't remember there being a vote as to whether we should go to war. Democracy or not, the people of this nation had no say in that decision so like I said, whats the fucking point? As far as I can see it would have happened whether 1% of the population or 100% of the population went and demonstrated.

All democracy means is that you get a chance to voice your opinion. It doesn't mean that it matters to anyone in charge. We just choose the puppet master, we don't pull the strings.

And the fact that most people lead relatively comfortable lives in this country creates that apathy. Regardless of whatever taxes we get hit with, our lives are never going to be so bad that we have to literally fight for them. Not until Mecha-Hitler comes back from the moon with the blueprints for the Fourth Reich under his arm.

Which brings me rather long-windedly back to my original point. In this country, there is fuck all point in demonstrating and protesting, because the majority of people don't give a fuck about anything. More people vote for the fucking winner of the X Factor than would demonstrate against a war, so what does that tell you? And even if they did give a fuck they don't get to vote on the matter anyway.

In other, chiefly poorer, countries the right to have your voice heard is literally fought for. If those people want change, they grab an AK47, a handful of grenades, go into the street and start fucking shooting anything in a uniform. I'm not saying this is a better way to do things (I'm not one of these sad fucking pseudo-anarchists who doesn't really understand the meaning of the word. Actually, on that point, I remember seeing an "Anarchists bike ride" in Manchester, where whoever was at the front shouted "left!" or "right!" and they went left or right, as they had no pre-set route. Talk about missing the point altogether...Anarchists that follow one person telling them what to do and where to go... If they were real anarchists, they wouldn't have even fucking shown up...) but it is probably the most 'direct' way of making a change. Although it's likely to get you killed, horribly as history has shown time and time again. So again, whats the fucking point?

The Man always gets you in the end...
( PMGT -Bacon., Mon 15 Nov 2010, 1:30, closed)

I
take th opposite view. The reason it is good to protest is that barely anybody gives a fuck about the issues. This means that the voices of those who actually care and bother to do something about it actually make a difference. That's also the reason why politicians disproportionately target small single issue or highly motivated minority groups of people when campaigning for election, they know that a much higher proportion of them will vote.
(Hippo_of_Doom, Wed 17 Nov 2010, 17:03, closed)

Again, another good point,
but you can't deny that the people who care enough about something to actively protest it are in the minority. And the last election showed record voter turnouts.

Where I lived at the time people were actually turned away from voting! So even though you're right, and those motivated minorities are more likely to vote, on large issues such as the election they just get steamrollered by the "ignorant" majority anyway.

On top of which, I would be somewhat suspicious of any politican who was "targeting" me and not just representing my interests.
( PMGT -Bacon., Wed 17 Nov 2010, 19:26, closed)

Hmmmm
I used to go on demos (from CND in the early 80s to the anti-Iraq war one) but I pretty much agree with your viewpoint nowadays. It might just be age; "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of
want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head" and all that. Of course, if we start having as much civil disobedience as some predict in the next few months, I'll be happy to get involved in a bit of looting for old time's sake.
( wotofco pissing in your swimming pool, Wed 17 Nov 2010, 18:42, closed)