But what if what you really want to do is excel in business?
Maybe to you that appears indistinguishable from wanting to climb the career ladder for its own sake.
( in vino veritas, Wed 26 May 2010, 22:58, archived)

Yeah, what does it even mean?

( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 26 May 2010, 22:59, archived)

I don't know
You're the one that thinks it's awful that young people want to have a career and do well at it.
( in vino veritas, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:02, archived)

No, it's awful that we're cajoling kids into thinking this kind of thing is desirable,
and it isn't even a thing. "Business" doesn't mean anything. It's a completely abstract concept. We're leading them about with carrots on sticks and exalting them for falling for it.

In fact it's awful that anybody falls for it, but pulling the same trick on unwary teenagers is just unforgivable.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:07, archived)

I would define business as the buying and selling of things that consumers want and/or need. In other words, trade.
That's pretty fundamental to society and has been for thousands of years.
( in vino veritas, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:16, archived)

What non-abstract concept should we be striving towards?
Or is striving towards anything at all meaningless?

Not trying to pick a fight, just wondering what your idea of what society ought to be is, beyond a vague idea of "individual progress".
( MooCow_Byter, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:25, archived)

Understanding.

( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:28, archived)

Understanding what?

( in vino veritas, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:29, archived)

Everything there is to understand.

( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:31, archived)

Everything except what makes people buy goods
and how to get them to buy goods from you for a profit? Yes?
( in vino veritas, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:33, archived)

Well now you have got me there,
understanding how to coerce and manipulate people doesn't seem all that positive. Well maybe understanding it is one thing, and actually doing it entirely another. I mean we understand how people freeze do death because of experiments in Nazi Germany, and that turned out to be very useful information.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:43, archived)

Are you comparing an NVQ in business studies
to the human experimentation carried out by the Nazis?
( in vino veritas, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:52, archived)

Yes.

( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:54, archived)

hahahaha
clicking dis
( wotofco pissing in your swimming pool, Thu 27 May 2010, 0:02, archived)

Another way to look at it would be that she's comparing De Beers sponsoring civil war in Africa
with the Lifeboats saving hypothermic victims of near-drownings.

I don't think that extrapolating absurd juxtapositions invalidates the argument of itself.
( MooCow_Byter, Thu 27 May 2010, 0:12, archived)

I don't think this is a bad aim,
despite being what I'd consider a pretty abstract concept. But it seems a little vague and (by definition) unachievable a goal for a workable society. Maybe a set of more concrete ideas for people to strive for would be helpful. Although most people try to increase their personal understanding of the Universe almost automatically to some extent, it's difficult to relate to as something that we can meaningfully aim for.
( MooCow_Byter, Wed 26 May 2010, 23:38, archived)