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If someone wants to tell me that homosexuals are evil because God said so in the Bible

but then can't explain why eating shellfish isn't evil when it's just as clearly written, then they're a fuckwit using an ancient text to prop up their own prejudices and bigotry. That's what picking and choosing gets you.

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emvee cruor deo cruoris, Mon 17 May 2010, 11:58, archived)

Or if someone says that we should all 'love thy neighbour'?

Why is it that Atheists take the bible so seriously?

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gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Mon 17 May 2010, 12:05, archived)

Because we've read it?

For every "love thy neighbour" in there there's a whole lot of nasty shit that I wouldn't want anyone to take to heart

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emvee cruor deo cruoris, Mon 17 May 2010, 12:07, archived)

'Love thy neighbour' is obviously a good message to take

unless you live next door to Fred West. 'Murder the raped woman because she can't scream loud enough' clearly isn't. The problem comes, I think, if you take the Bible to be God's revealed truth to humanity -- if you believe that, then who are you to pick which to follow?

Clearly, a normal human being will tend to take "love thy neighbour" and reject "murder the rape victim". That's absolutely fine by me. What gets my goat is when people will then justify it not so much by pointing at the Bible but by pointing and the Bible and saying that you should love your neighbour because God tells you so.

Also, why can't I just love my neighbour anyway...? If it takes God hitting me over the head with the Bible to stop me acting like a tit then I'm probably a lost cause...

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boris the spider, Mon 17 May 2010, 12:10, archived)

Of course some people don't require the bible to guide them.

But some people do and that's been my point all along. If it helps someone, then no-one should have the right to tell them they're wrong provided they aren't harming anyone?

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Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Mon 17 May 2010, 12:16, archived)

People have the "right" to tell them, they just might not be right in doing so.

Free speech and all that.

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gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Mon 17 May 2010, 12:18, archived)

I'm not sure anyone was intentionally arguing against that

Where I feel people go wrong -- so to speak -- is by then elevating the Bible above, say, "Overcome Bad Self-Esteem" or, to use gronkpan's more pertinent example, Aesop's Fables. Even that doesn't actually matter, except the distressing tendency of *some* people who do so to go around telling everyone else how wrong they are and trying to influence not just our lives but the laws of our nations on the strength of their ancient life-guide. When it gets to the point that they'll want to murder me for suggesting that Jesus quite possibly didn't exist in the form we believe he did, or that Mohammed might have been power-mad, or that Abraham almost certainly didn't exist and Joseph was a myth based on a long-dead Jewish chamberlain in Egypt -- or, more farcically, that the world is older than 6,000 years, that's the problem.

And I believe you agree with me on that one...

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boris the spider, Mon 17 May 2010, 12:21, archived)

I have no problem with that.

Having grown up in a religious household, gone to a religious school, and consequentially, most of my friends being religious, I can say that not one single one of them has ever preached or told people how to live their lives according to the bible. It's a choice that people make, barring the few who are truly indoctrinated, and they are few and far between in my experience.

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Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Mon 17 May 2010, 12:26, archived)

I've had a couple of friends who were like that

Perfectly decent people in all other respects (well, naturally; I'd not be friends with them otherwise) but trying to convert me and pushing the Bible as absolute proof -- or ducking the question of literalism -- when it arose. But far more of my friends who were religious didn't do it.

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boris the spider, Mon 17 May 2010, 12:34, archived)

There's nothing wrong when the message is "be a good person"

but that's not the whole story, it's often "women and gays are inferior" and "nonbelievers will go to hell"

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emvee cruor deo cruoris, Mon 17 May 2010, 12:23, archived)