'However, if they were to follow your advice of 'build your own links and let Google come find you!', chances are they'd be earning appoximately £0 from natural search referals to their websites.'
If their marketing department were explained the theory behind and the benefit of link building, surely they could do it themselves? Larger companies could just buy advertising.
What is the specialist skill that an SEO brings to the link building side of the job? Someone said a list of sites you can post on, but is that all?
(If their marketing department were explained the theory behind and the benefit of link building, surely they could do it themselves? Larger companies could just buy advertising.
What is the specialist skill that an SEO brings to the link building side of the job? Someone said a list of sites you can post on, but is that all?
monkeon schmonkeon,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 18:02,
archived)
From a link building perspectiveyou can do it yourself or pay someone else to, much as you can buy your own PPC or buy your own media, but why not use a hard cost agency to do it beter and cheaper?
Also I need to learn to spell 'better' it would seem.
(Also I need to learn to spell 'better' it would seem.
LordManley twitter.com/LordManley,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 19:10,
archived)
."but why not use a hard cost agency to do it better and cheaper?"
Is it that much cheaper?
How would you define better?
(Is it that much cheaper?
How would you define better?
monkeon schmonkeon,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 19:13,
archived)
It is a shorter term benefitand I cannot really improve on milt's response below, much as I do like a good bicker.
( LordManley twitter.com/LordManley,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 20:39,
archived)
You might not believe it,but I hate an argument.
I'm amused that no one has defended working in social media, though. I was even ruder about them.
(I'm amused that no one has defended working in social media, though. I was even ruder about them.
monkeon schmonkeon,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 21:05,
archived)
Some of my best friends work in social mediaand that's all I am willing to say.
Except, of course, that it is not. I think that there are areas where social media can be leveraged just as bill hoardings have their place, or advertising in the local rag. I think tat it is an important and valuable resource which can be used as a superb and targeted channel.
I also think that every man and his dog want to jump on the band wagon and that the sort of marketing director who wants 'social media' because it sounds good is a lot more likely to be charletonized (yes I do make words up, what of it?) than the same man in traditional media channels (including organic search).
I also really like battered chips.
(Except, of course, that it is not. I think that there are areas where social media can be leveraged just as bill hoardings have their place, or advertising in the local rag. I think tat it is an important and valuable resource which can be used as a superb and targeted channel.
I also think that every man and his dog want to jump on the band wagon and that the sort of marketing director who wants 'social media' because it sounds good is a lot more likely to be charletonized (yes I do make words up, what of it?) than the same man in traditional media channels (including organic search).
I also really like battered chips.
LordManley twitter.com/LordManley,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 22:28,
archived)
I think our main difference in perspective seems to be that youwork with large businesses, and I work with small. As such, I get pissed off when I see people who, say, run a dog walking company who have been sold a blog and twitter by a social media 'expert'.
Social Media is fine for large companies (even though it backfires all the time), but lots of blog posts with "comments(0)" is a waste of everyone's time if they don't have or need a big client base.
(Social Media is fine for large companies (even though it backfires all the time), but lots of blog posts with "comments(0)" is a waste of everyone's time if they don't have or need a big client base.
monkeon schmonkeon,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 22:34,
archived)
Actually, I think a dog walking service is a prime example ofa business which could benefit from social media engagement within a local vertical, but yes, in general your point is a valid one.
( LordManley twitter.com/LordManley,
Wed 23 Jun 2010, 9:15,
archived)
Things like Twitter feeds......need a reason to exist. It needs to be part of the service and it needs to add value to the customer in some way, shape or form.
For a kennel, I can see there being an argument for a feed to allow the dog owners to keep tabs on their animal, when it was walked, fed, etc. As well as a way for owners to keep in touch with the kennel in a fairly simple way.
A dog walking service? Maybe there is an argument for it, but it would have to serve a purpose.
(,
Wed 23 Jun 2010, 10:19,
archived)
For a kennel, I can see there being an argument for a feed to allow the dog owners to keep tabs on their animal, when it was walked, fed, etc. As well as a way for owners to keep in touch with the kennel in a fairly simple way.
A dog walking service? Maybe there is an argument for it, but it would have to serve a purpose.
I wouldn't say better and cheaper.I would say that an agency can do it well from contract start (as long as you have picked a good agency) without having to go through the pain of recruiting staff that you are not geared up to assess the skill-set of.
This is ultimately why agencies exist. They have specialists on tap and (presumably) can pick a decent candidate at interview. They can also hit the ground running.
It takes time to build a competent in-house team. They can be just as good as an agency. They are likely to be cheaper in the long-run though.
(,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 20:04,
archived)
This is ultimately why agencies exist. They have specialists on tap and (presumably) can pick a decent candidate at interview. They can also hit the ground running.
It takes time to build a competent in-house team. They can be just as good as an agency. They are likely to be cheaper in the long-run though.
."It takes time to build a competent in-house team."
Is there really that much knowledge to the link building side that an SEO consultant couldn't teach a marketing department in a day? I appreciate that there is skill to code optimisation (which I suspect should be a one-off job to someone who knows what they are doing.)
However, as I mentioned before, I'm sure that it's going to be the in-house team who are more able to write interesting content about their area of expertise to post on relevant blogs and article collection sites, which seems to be a far less spammy approach to link building.
(Is there really that much knowledge to the link building side that an SEO consultant couldn't teach a marketing department in a day? I appreciate that there is skill to code optimisation (which I suspect should be a one-off job to someone who knows what they are doing.)
However, as I mentioned before, I'm sure that it's going to be the in-house team who are more able to write interesting content about their area of expertise to post on relevant blogs and article collection sites, which seems to be a far less spammy approach to link building.
monkeon schmonkeon,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 20:45,
archived)
But where do you distribute your content?You could achieve something in a day, but I doubt you will create anything lasting. We have a three-month probation period for our link builders (although we usually have a pretty good idea if they are worth keeping after two months).
Yes, in-house people are often much better placed than a third party to write authoritatively on a subject, but they often crank out very formulaic material and marketing or PR departments are often geared up for offline writing; the jump to engaging an online audience is quite often beyond them (sweeping generalisations but still).
I deliver training courses to people like this on a semi-regular basis and am astonished at how unimaginative these in-house writers can be. We often come up with a small raft of suggestions about how to create new and interesting content and see a look of dawning realisation cross their faces, accompanied by "oh yeah, I hadn't though of that" - and these are ideas we come up with after spending less then an hour with them and their brand.
There needs to be someone who is responsible for some sort of creative input into the writing process, but they need to be divorced from the writing process - someone responsible for the content strategy - and some sites have this. Those that don't will see the benefit of hiring and SEO, even if it is difficult to justify a new hire.
As for link building, they need monitoring. It is too easy for a team to get stuck in unimaginative ruts. They need an oversight system to poke them out of their comfort zones. A culture of idea sharing needs to be cultivated and innovation needs to rule the team.
Ultimately, there is nothing wrong with in-house teams. They will be just as susceptible as agencies to charlatans; the defense against this is someone knowing their onions doing the hiring (difficult if you are building a function from scratch). But if you want work to start with professionals doing the work, and you want them started by the start of next month, you will be lucky to get job ads live by then; you call a good agency and say I need this resource starting on the 1st July, as long as the money is good, you will have those people working right on time.
(,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 21:35,
archived)
Yes, in-house people are often much better placed than a third party to write authoritatively on a subject, but they often crank out very formulaic material and marketing or PR departments are often geared up for offline writing; the jump to engaging an online audience is quite often beyond them (sweeping generalisations but still).
I deliver training courses to people like this on a semi-regular basis and am astonished at how unimaginative these in-house writers can be. We often come up with a small raft of suggestions about how to create new and interesting content and see a look of dawning realisation cross their faces, accompanied by "oh yeah, I hadn't though of that" - and these are ideas we come up with after spending less then an hour with them and their brand.
There needs to be someone who is responsible for some sort of creative input into the writing process, but they need to be divorced from the writing process - someone responsible for the content strategy - and some sites have this. Those that don't will see the benefit of hiring and SEO, even if it is difficult to justify a new hire.
As for link building, they need monitoring. It is too easy for a team to get stuck in unimaginative ruts. They need an oversight system to poke them out of their comfort zones. A culture of idea sharing needs to be cultivated and innovation needs to rule the team.
Ultimately, there is nothing wrong with in-house teams. They will be just as susceptible as agencies to charlatans; the defense against this is someone knowing their onions doing the hiring (difficult if you are building a function from scratch). But if you want work to start with professionals doing the work, and you want them started by the start of next month, you will be lucky to get job ads live by then; you call a good agency and say I need this resource starting on the 1st July, as long as the money is good, you will have those people working right on time.
Do you have some examplesof a good articles written for link building by an SEO?
Everytime I ask this, people seem to only link to their own blogs writing about things they care for personally, rather than a link to an article for a client.
(Everytime I ask this, people seem to only link to their own blogs writing about things they care for personally, rather than a link to an article for a client.
monkeon schmonkeon,
Tue 22 Jun 2010, 21:41,
archived)