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# I completely disagree.
but you've obviously enjoyed the BBC's coverage, so it may be too late for me to sway your point of view.

My point was written in a rush before I had to go off to work, so apologies for the late reply.

I am just unable to take your black and white viewpoint seriously, that it's simply cunts being cunts. I see the looting as a symptom of the widespread anger at various problems in British society cuts, erosion of the benefit services, lack of job opportunities, poor standards of health care and education in deprived areas, poor community education and community development in deprived areas, shocking standards of housing, lack of trust for the police in light of recent media stories and negative personal experiences with police etc. I think it is incredibly superficial to see the disorder as simply because they all want to go thieving, though the dissemination of this point of view suits the government very well in influencing opinion against the rioters, should some people think that it's somehow got something to do with the government (surely not!).

I did not seek to justify any violence/theft/fireraising, only suggested a reason for it, that is, that a large social group feels it has no future and no place in society and are showing that they will not be ignored any longer.

Then again, it feels much better to just say it's 'just cunts being cunts' and that it has nothing to do with wider societal problems.
(I helped save b3ta! drbroon abloooobloobloo, Tue 9 Aug 2011, 23:28, archived)
# There have always been
large social groups suffering in one way or another but the reaction to this situation doesn't follow a pattern of social expression, it appears to be opportunistic, 'safety in numbers' muppetry the likes of which has been created by a succession of enfranchising expansions in rights and expectations over the last century or so. To suggest that this type of situation isn't black and white is actually a little bit off target as it bears few of the hallmarks of popular uprisings the likes of which we have seen in the 'Arab spring' (but also ambling back through time to the Russian revolution) where there was a focus to the turmoil not merely a push to self serving anarchy amongst a small corps of the population.
(I helped save b3ta! number5 has been fighting tramps and losing., Wed 10 Aug 2011, 0:07, archived)
# in your opinion, it's off target.
I am simply suggesting an underlying problem, in my opinion. I don't think, due to the disorganised nature of the uprising, for one reason or another, that there will ever be a stated common point to the violence in order to draw parallels with the Arab spring. Social exclusion leads to a build up of anger over time and it is expressed in however a particular collective can/wish to. The problem is caused by social exclusion, therefore it is society's and the government's problem, they created this. I would contend that these people would not be motivated to violence and looting if they had been afforded the opportunities in life available to those who sit on a messageboard at 12:55 pontificating on such subjects.
(I helped save b3ta! drbroon abloooobloobloo, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 0:55, archived)
# Despite my rant below
A good part of me agrees with you to a point. But, as a person sitting on a messageboard at 12:55 doing just that, didn't you make your own opportunities? Are you not that person because of what you did and how you did it, rather than what The Man gave you? Why do you think it should be different for anyone else?

I will actively fight to continue to help people who need help, but at the same time I know from my own experience that there are a huge number of people shitting on my help, living on subsidised rents they don't need and haven't needed for 6 years for example. And I truly believe its those people, the ones who have had "rights" to shit on the help society gives them interfered with, that are the most aggrieved. The truly needy, the truly poor, are silent and forgotten as usual whilst all our attention and money is focussed on fighting, silencing, or pandering to the brats with a sense of entitlement.

(I helped save b3ta! Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:07, archived)
#
"I see the looting as a symptom of the widespread anger at various problems in British society... and negative personal experiences with police etc."

At what point, exactly, do you feel that these misunderstood darlings should take personal responsibility for being violent arsonists and opportunistic thieves? Even assuming those people cheerfully looting the high-value shops in their neighborhood actually subscribe to your point of view - which is by no means certain - their actions are not really contributing towards a solution.

It's kind of you to proffer a reason to their antisocial antics, some form of lofty justification. They, themselves, have demonstrated none - other than 'woo, free telly'. They're lucky to have you as their self-appointed spokesperson, mashing out a series of clichéd post-hoc rationales for their unforgivably shitty behavior.

You honestly think the cunts nicking TVs and tracksuits, burning random properties and cars, and stealing things from the pockets of fallen 'comrades' are doing it in order to protest health care standards, or any other specific item in your laundry list of sixth-form angst?
(I helped save b3ta! Happy Phantom has been to Hastings, Brighton, and Eastbourne too, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 2:24, archived)
# I'm suggesting it as a reason for the build up of anger
not as a justification for the individuals involved.

Such social disorder is the fault of the government, make no mistake about it. I can understand people getting all angry about it and all "kill those fucking uneducated chav scum", but I think it's important to keep an eye on the real reasons, not justifications, reasons for why this is happening now. I didn't mean to sound like I sympathised with the rioters as such, I only meant to suggest that there is certainly a bigger picture than just "chavs being chavs".
(I helped save b3ta! drbroon abloooobloobloo, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:34, archived)
# I can only say to you what I say to everyone
See how much the bigger picture matters to you when there are people trying to set fire to your home. This has literally been the case for some of my friends. The righteous anger of the poor, forgotten, blackberry owning, social media utilizing underclass eh? What the mainstream media is reporting becomes irrelevant when you're watching the bloke next door being beaten by kids wearing £300 trainers and designer clothing. Which they did not loot.

And yes, of course there are social problems and people with legitimate complaint, when aren't there? Personally if I have problems I sort them the fuck out rather than sitting around waiting for the government to do it for me and whingeing about the nanny state interfering with my life at the same time, whilst waiting around for a bunch of brain-dead thugs to use my malaise as an excuse to destroy people's lives and grab stuff so I can bleat about how that's the government's fault too.

Also its funny how the mainstream media are so establishment biased when it comes to reporting the riots. They were all so spot on about the cause of the financial crisis and it being solely the fault of bankers.

Massive double standards, the mainstream media.
(I helped save b3ta! Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:57, archived)