If nobody bred, there'd be nobody TO adopt.To suggest that selfishness is the root cause of procreation is nothing short of absurdity. The root cause is a natural drive that we now have the intellectual ability to subvert, which is done for selfish reasons such as careers, social life etc..
There's nothing pretentious in saying that by having children, you are playing a part in the creation of the next generation, because that is exactly what you are doing. Sadly we are encouraged these days to try to think up a 'what's in it for me' style justification for absolutely everything.
Sometimes the IVF thing does irk me when there are babies wanting adoption. But how is there a vested interest in bringing up 'your own' child over somebody else's? What actual practical difference would it make? It's the child that stands to gain, not yourself. They might have your genes, but they don't carry on your ego. There might be 'selfish gene' work going on here but 'selfish gene' is nothing more than the provocative title of a book. A gene can't be selfish because it doesn't have a sense of self. It's ultimately an irrational, instinctive thing, not the 'rational self-interest' of Homo Economicus.
(There's nothing pretentious in saying that by having children, you are playing a part in the creation of the next generation, because that is exactly what you are doing. Sadly we are encouraged these days to try to think up a 'what's in it for me' style justification for absolutely everything.
Sometimes the IVF thing does irk me when there are babies wanting adoption. But how is there a vested interest in bringing up 'your own' child over somebody else's? What actual practical difference would it make? It's the child that stands to gain, not yourself. They might have your genes, but they don't carry on your ego. There might be 'selfish gene' work going on here but 'selfish gene' is nothing more than the provocative title of a book. A gene can't be selfish because it doesn't have a sense of self. It's ultimately an irrational, instinctive thing, not the 'rational self-interest' of Homo Economicus.
Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag,
Wed 9 Jan 2013, 14:45,
archived)
"The root cause is a natural drive"Yes. Procreation of the self.
It's OK - everyone's selfish.
(It's OK - everyone's selfish.
Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob,
Wed 9 Jan 2013, 14:59,
archived)
NO, NO, NO.It isn't procreation of the SELF. It is procreation of your genes - well, HALF of your genes (and half of your partner's). Your baby is not YOU. Your genes are not you. Genes do not have a "self". Even a pair of identical twins is still two individuals.
It's a natural drive, which means it doesn't have a conscious, selfish reason such as "so that they will look after me in my old age." These things are post-rationalisations. The truth is, when someone knows they want kids, they don't know why. They just do. It's way beyond the scope of the ego. It's NOT having children that is a conscious decision, that people make for selfish, egotistical reasons such as "career".
Everyone is NOT SELFISH. Maybe you should read The Selfish Gene. It explains why.
(It's a natural drive, which means it doesn't have a conscious, selfish reason such as "so that they will look after me in my old age." These things are post-rationalisations. The truth is, when someone knows they want kids, they don't know why. They just do. It's way beyond the scope of the ego. It's NOT having children that is a conscious decision, that people make for selfish, egotistical reasons such as "career".
Everyone is NOT SELFISH. Maybe you should read The Selfish Gene. It explains why.
Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag,
Wed 9 Jan 2013, 15:06,
archived)
No, it's not the self, but the drive behind it is of the self.So it's selfish.
"The truth is, when someone knows they want kids, they don't know why".
Which is why I'm providing this rather wonderful elucidation. I'm telling you why - because they're selfish. It's because they want them.
Like I want a threesome with Natalie Portman and Scarlett Johanssen. I don't need one; I just want one.
It's done (in the UK) because people are that shallow, their lives that empty, and their relationships that fragile that they think having a kid will fulfil them. It also provides the parent with someone utterly dependent on them.
It's all me, me, me. Of course - as you point out, many are unaware of this; many try to disguise this intention, but it's the root.
MINE. ME.
"im not a vilent man but i swer eny1 goes near my dauter an ill do time"
("The truth is, when someone knows they want kids, they don't know why".
Which is why I'm providing this rather wonderful elucidation. I'm telling you why - because they're selfish. It's because they want them.
Like I want a threesome with Natalie Portman and Scarlett Johanssen. I don't need one; I just want one.
It's done (in the UK) because people are that shallow, their lives that empty, and their relationships that fragile that they think having a kid will fulfil them. It also provides the parent with someone utterly dependent on them.
It's all me, me, me. Of course - as you point out, many are unaware of this; many try to disguise this intention, but it's the root.
MINE. ME.
"im not a vilent man but i swer eny1 goes near my dauter an ill do time"
Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob,
Wed 9 Jan 2013, 15:25,
archived)
I'm still trying to decide whether this is some kind of spectacular trolling or these are all your genuine opinions.I really hope the former.
(
drimble he'd been white, he'd been black,
Wed 9 Jan 2013, 15:35,
archived)
No the drive behind itis to the genes. Drives have no awareness of self. Even insects have this drive. Even ants, who sacrifice their own lives without thought for the sake of the nest.
Because "they want them" isn't any kind of answer. It's practically tautologous. WHY do they want them? That's the question. I can see why people want NOT to have them. It's because they know how it will affect their careers, their social lives, their sex lives. All conscious, selfish reasons. A reason really has to be conscious to be selfish, because the self is the conscious.
You seem to be hung up on this kind of selfishness dogma. Maybe you are aware that you are selfish and you are trying to save face. Yes, we all are, to a degree, but that doesn't mean it is the only motivation for anything. It's hard to admit, but sometimes we just don't know why we do things. That's why we invented the meaningless word "want".
(Because "they want them" isn't any kind of answer. It's practically tautologous. WHY do they want them? That's the question. I can see why people want NOT to have them. It's because they know how it will affect their careers, their social lives, their sex lives. All conscious, selfish reasons. A reason really has to be conscious to be selfish, because the self is the conscious.
You seem to be hung up on this kind of selfishness dogma. Maybe you are aware that you are selfish and you are trying to save face. Yes, we all are, to a degree, but that doesn't mean it is the only motivation for anything. It's hard to admit, but sometimes we just don't know why we do things. That's why we invented the meaningless word "want".
Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag,
Wed 9 Jan 2013, 15:36,
archived)
They want them ...because they're selfish.
"They just do"/"Because it's different when they're your own."
"Yes, we all are, to a degree" - not to a degree, entirely. Of the self. Me. All of us. Nothing - charity, philanthropy, helping others is done without some at least hope of reward - whether that's money, self satisfaction, feeling smug, or the chance of being a sanctimonious prick.
("They just do"/"Because it's different when they're your own."
"Yes, we all are, to a degree" - not to a degree, entirely. Of the self. Me. All of us. Nothing - charity, philanthropy, helping others is done without some at least hope of reward - whether that's money, self satisfaction, feeling smug, or the chance of being a sanctimonious prick.
Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob,
Wed 9 Jan 2013, 15:41,
archived)
JAY AND SILENT BOB STRIKE BACK Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob,
Wed 9 Jan 2013, 15:54,
archived)
p.s. side of screenend of discussion. Or start a new thread somewhere.
( Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag,
Wed 9 Jan 2013, 15:37,
archived)