Hah, that's true, but isn't that funny? Or sad or ironic or poignant or something?Why is it so intensely, and apparently personally, upsetting? Hmm: perhaps, when your patience gets exhausted, it's not funny any more, and is just massively frustrating, and the time for lightly shrugging off the condescending tone (if such there is) has passed. Fairy nuff.
It certainly is a lesson in how not to warn people of a genuine threat, if you want them to react sympathetically at least.
Do you remember how the Iraqi super-gun affair was reported? The coverage prematurely convinced me that it was a stupid made-up cry-wolf about nothing. Obviously! But then Panorama interviewed the British engineer who had supervised the prototype's successful test firing campaign...
And I was blasé about BSE.
And I was blasé about the (small, but beginning to be measured) possibility of paracetamol in pregnancy raising the risk of asthma.
And so it goes on.
[EDIT] Friends of mine recently saw their child change sleeping behaviour radically after routine immunisations. It's probably coincidence. But they don't want to risk it. Had I heard about the aluminium in vaccines, they asked me? So I looked, and sure enough: articles in proper peer-reviewed medical journals discussing Gulf War Illness/Syndrome, and the possible role of aluminium hydroxide adjuvant, just tumble out. Are these used in NHS vaccines? I think so, but the NHS pamphlet does not say -- more research required. Didn't Catnipppp bang on about Aluminium? I missed that post of his. I'm not saying OMG we'll all die, but it bears investigating, non?
Anyway, I'm wittering now :-)
(It certainly is a lesson in how not to warn people of a genuine threat, if you want them to react sympathetically at least.
Do you remember how the Iraqi super-gun affair was reported? The coverage prematurely convinced me that it was a stupid made-up cry-wolf about nothing. Obviously! But then Panorama interviewed the British engineer who had supervised the prototype's successful test firing campaign...
And I was blasé about BSE.
And I was blasé about the (small, but beginning to be measured) possibility of paracetamol in pregnancy raising the risk of asthma.
And so it goes on.
[EDIT] Friends of mine recently saw their child change sleeping behaviour radically after routine immunisations. It's probably coincidence. But they don't want to risk it. Had I heard about the aluminium in vaccines, they asked me? So I looked, and sure enough: articles in proper peer-reviewed medical journals discussing Gulf War Illness/Syndrome, and the possible role of aluminium hydroxide adjuvant, just tumble out. Are these used in NHS vaccines? I think so, but the NHS pamphlet does not say -- more research required. Didn't Catnipppp bang on about Aluminium? I missed that post of his. I'm not saying OMG we'll all die, but it bears investigating, non?
Anyway, I'm wittering now :-)
Bee Nice |-|,
Thu 23 Apr 2009, 21:20,
archived)
The fact remains "so what?"fuck off and tell it to people who care and don't use b3ta as a platform for preaching.
edit:/ and by the way. The project Babylon gun was never completed or built. let alone fired.
(edit:/ and by the way. The project Babylon gun was never completed or built. let alone fired.
Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice,
Thu 23 Apr 2009, 21:24,
archived)
Right, a "Don't abuse b3ta for your personal profit" makes sense as a complaint.Using b3ta as a campaign platform -- that would be in the same category as using it to spam adverts etc. An unwelcome intrusion.
(For what it's worth -- not much -- I thought that Catnipppp saw it more as humour/satire/opinion, rather than campaigning. In the same vein (approximately) as BBDO. But I haven't read all the threads. Let alone the gazzes. Perhaps it's not very BBDO-like after all. (Hope BBDO doesn't mind being the archetype here!))
((For what it's worth -- not much -- I thought that Catnipppp saw it more as humour/satire/opinion, rather than campaigning. In the same vein (approximately) as BBDO. But I haven't read all the threads. Let alone the gazzes. Perhaps it's not very BBDO-like after all. (Hope BBDO doesn't mind being the archetype here!))
Bee Nice |-|,
Thu 23 Apr 2009, 21:43,
archived)
project Babylon -- right: the full-size version wasn't builtand was way off being an actual threat.
But the project, though seeming a wildly implausible fiction, was absolutely solid fact. It sobered me up, that's all.
The same with BSE: I look back on bluffly eating away at tasty beef and mocking the prophets of doom, with shame. It turned out that they really did have a case, and I was the blustering ignoramus.
(But the project, though seeming a wildly implausible fiction, was absolutely solid fact. It sobered me up, that's all.
The same with BSE: I look back on bluffly eating away at tasty beef and mocking the prophets of doom, with shame. It turned out that they really did have a case, and I was the blustering ignoramus.
Bee Nice |-|,
Thu 23 Apr 2009, 21:56,
archived)
Ah, right. Fair enough then.(I haven't, myself, attempted scientific debate with Catnipppp, which perhaps explains why I'm so sanguine about all this :-S
Or perhaps I o/d'd on sense-of-humour pills this morning... 8-D :-(
Edit: ^^^^ and thanks, _Felix & Pasanonic, for answering my crazy questions. I appreciate it!
(Or perhaps I o/d'd on sense-of-humour pills this morning... 8-D :-(
Edit: ^^^^ and thanks, _Felix & Pasanonic, for answering my crazy questions. I appreciate it!
Bee Nice |-|,
Thu 23 Apr 2009, 21:48,
archived)
I'm inclined to think that aluminium hydroxide is not used in routine childhood vaccines.The wikipedia page says it's used in some vaccines, and mentions the Anthrax vaccine. It would be odd to pick that one out if it was also used in the vaccine against, say, measles. Anthrax is a likely thing to be vaccinated against in the gulf war, too.
It might be in the HPV vaccine, which is going to be given to all 16 year old girls in the UK this autumn. The possible side effect of being injected with aluminium is that it might be neurotoxic, if your kidneys don't just get rid of it, as seems likely. Getting rid of HPV is a Good Thing, though, and it presumably isn't very neurotoxic or we'd notice, and most 16 year old girls will imbibe neurotoxic substances recreationally every weekend anyway.
(,
Thu 23 Apr 2009, 22:04,
archived)
It might be in the HPV vaccine, which is going to be given to all 16 year old girls in the UK this autumn. The possible side effect of being injected with aluminium is that it might be neurotoxic, if your kidneys don't just get rid of it, as seems likely. Getting rid of HPV is a Good Thing, though, and it presumably isn't very neurotoxic or we'd notice, and most 16 year old girls will imbibe neurotoxic substances recreationally every weekend anyway.
I need to look into this in a LOT more detail, butas an appetiser:
1. There's some evidence that the aluminium hydroxide may remain as inclusions in the muscle where the injection was: see Gherardi's work on macrophagic myofasciitis. (Though I haven't checked: perhaps he's a nutjob).
2. It may not be directly neurotoxic. Though I don't believe adjuvants are thoroughly understood, clearly they change the way the immune system reacts to the antigen. If they keep on doing that, long after the injection of antigen, then all sorts of auto-immune damage could conceivably (speculate, waffle, hand-wave) result.
3. When did you last hear of what adjuvants are used, let alone safety trials? They just aren't discussed. They aren't mentioned in NHS pamphlets. "MMR" has been very widely used and observed, but what is MMR? Do all the manufacturers use exactly the same adjuvant types and amounts? What if the studies showing 'MMR is fairly safe' came from a country using only one of various different brands of MMR, and different manufacturers of MMR vaccines use a different adjuvant system?
All this is rather too nebulous: as I say, I need to look further. Perhaps there are safety studies and it's all fine, or is not used routinely by NHS any more (cf. thiomersal), etc.
But, once again, my scoffing thoughts about friends who are dead-set against vaccines now ring rather hollow in my ears. (But to be clear: I expect that MMR will probably still turn out safer than the alternative of risking deafness or death from measles).
(1. There's some evidence that the aluminium hydroxide may remain as inclusions in the muscle where the injection was: see Gherardi's work on macrophagic myofasciitis. (Though I haven't checked: perhaps he's a nutjob).
2. It may not be directly neurotoxic. Though I don't believe adjuvants are thoroughly understood, clearly they change the way the immune system reacts to the antigen. If they keep on doing that, long after the injection of antigen, then all sorts of auto-immune damage could conceivably (speculate, waffle, hand-wave) result.
3. When did you last hear of what adjuvants are used, let alone safety trials? They just aren't discussed. They aren't mentioned in NHS pamphlets. "MMR" has been very widely used and observed, but what is MMR? Do all the manufacturers use exactly the same adjuvant types and amounts? What if the studies showing 'MMR is fairly safe' came from a country using only one of various different brands of MMR, and different manufacturers of MMR vaccines use a different adjuvant system?
All this is rather too nebulous: as I say, I need to look further. Perhaps there are safety studies and it's all fine, or is not used routinely by NHS any more (cf. thiomersal), etc.
But, once again, my scoffing thoughts about friends who are dead-set against vaccines now ring rather hollow in my ears. (But to be clear: I expect that MMR will probably still turn out safer than the alternative of risking deafness or death from measles).
Bee Nice |-|,
Thu 23 Apr 2009, 22:43,
archived)