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This is a normal post I'm pretty happy having the combined wit of 28 countries
overruling fuckwits like Theresa May and Boris Johnson. Our own executive powers are pretty useless. The Queen just says "whatever" to most stuff and the Lords are mostly asleep
 (theswollenbeef where there's a will there's a wank, Wed 15 Jun 2016, 16:01, , Reply)
This is a normal post I find this angle of attack
deeply sad and perplexing. You are effectively saying 'I don't like the way my fellow countrymen vote, so let's invite a bunch of managers who do not have our best interest at heart to run us instead'.
I'm a remainer for geopolitical reasons but this argument drives me insane with anger.We can clean our own fucking beaches without stuffing Francois the small farmer's pockets with euros or letting some Luxembourger decide who fishes in our waters.
 (I helped save b3ta! The Ann Coulter Fan Club Babylon is burning at, Wed 15 Jun 2016, 16:51, , Reply)
This is a normal post No I am saying I think an effective executive body is a good thing
that most other countries have. We do not. The EU fills the vacuum quite well.
You can pick and choose what the EU has done well and badly if you like but I'd rather have the extra sanity check than not. And by the way, define "our" best interests - the outers seem to be deciding what's in my best interest all to readily. I like cod, I'm glad restrictions on fishing mean its not been exterminated. I like clean beaches I like workers rights etc etc
 (theswollenbeef where there's a will there's a wank, Wed 15 Jun 2016, 16:57, , Reply)
This is a normal post Why?
I don't trust most of my fellow countrymen to make executive, important economic decisions that could effect our future relationship with essential trading partners. Surely that's common sense.

I do not think the average van driver should have an opinion on such matters. He should be able to elect somebody who does, of course, but he should not have a direct say himself.

We need executive bodies to make informed, educated decisions not swayed by populism.

Unless you want to use idiots' votes to further your own political agenda.
 (BarryFromTheShitFarm Oh, Wed 15 Jun 2016, 17:05, , Reply)
This is a normal post "We need executive bodies to make informed, educated decisions not swayed by populism."
VIVA EL PRESIDENTE!!

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others, said some fatty.

I take it you're happy for this van driver to pay taxes?
 (CADmonkey rollllllllled another one, just like the other one, Wed 15 Jun 2016, 18:15, , Reply)
This is a normal post I think you'll find
Churchill represented the same definition of 'democracy' that currently exists - whereby we elect members of parliament to make crucial decisions for us. Sometimes against populist opinion, for the greater good. That's how it should be.

The EU referendum, by comparison, is ludicrous.

Dawkins got it right here: www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/eu-referendum-richard-dawkins-brexit-23rd-june-ignoramuses
 (BarryFromTheShitFarm Oh, Wed 15 Jun 2016, 18:53, , Reply)
This is a normal post That's because
You're an elitist fascist cunt. You despise your fellow man and think if only right-minded bien pensants like yourself ran everything the world would be just great. Which is despicable and disgusting.
 (I helped save b3ta! The Ann Coulter Fan Club Babylon is burning at, Wed 15 Jun 2016, 20:30, , Reply)
This is a normal post
By all means place the future of your country's trade and geopolitical presence in the hands of those who don't have a fucking clue about what they're talking about. But I'm with the form of 'democracy' that currently exists. The one where the average turd thankfully doesn't have much of a say.

Cunt.
 (BarryFromTheShitFarm Oh, Wed 15 Jun 2016, 21:14, , Reply)
This is a normal post You're a sick puppy
I'd hate to live inside your head, hating your fellow man so much that you think they don't deserve a say. Perhaps you'd be happier back in the days when only the elite had a vote. You are not arguing about policies. You are arguing that democracy is bad because it doesn't always produce the result that is 'right'.

My god. Someone please pull this guy to one side.
 (I helped save b3ta! The Ann Coulter Fan Club Babylon is burning at, Wed 15 Jun 2016, 22:00, , Reply)
This is a normal post You don't seem to understand how modern democracy works
We elect people to make educated decisions for us. We elect them on policy. We vote them out if they're shite.

There's a reason for why that is. Because, yes, most 'fellow men' simply aren't qualified to make these decisions. Unitiated in the finer workings of international trade relationships, they might well not have the country's best interests in mind. His inexperienced leanings toward populist policy might well be very damaging for the country.

Do I hate my fellow man? No. But do I trust my fellow man with absolutely no experience of global economics to make a decision that's best for the country? No. Of course not. I trust those with experience. And I would imagine most other sensible folk would reveal a wish for the the same, sensible approach to democracy.

It's the only check there is against dangerous populism. The fact that 'democracy' isn't actually as democratic as it perhaps could be. And rightly so.
 (BarryFromTheShitFarm Oh, Wed 15 Jun 2016, 22:27, , Reply)
This is a normal post .
What doesn't add up to me with the increased democracy argument is that if we want to export to european countries then we'll still have to obey an awful lot of their laws. If we set our own standards (and most of EU laws are about trading standards), that would just make things far harder to export and import, so it would be ridiculous not to just copy the EU on them.

At the moment, we send MEPs to debate for us. If we send Nigel Farage and he doesn't attend any meetings, then we have the power to elect someone else. As such, we have some say in how things are run.

If we leave, we'll have absolutely no say in what those laws are. That seems like a loss of power to me, not increased democracy.

Outside immigration, people who aren't cunts making the soveriegnty argument don't seem to be giving many examples of laws that they want changing. Even then, I suspect only a minority know what the options are on immigration within or outside the EU (and that's not a "the plebs don't know" comment - I don't know myself).

UKIP have been clear that they want to scrap things like maternity pay, sick pay and holiday pay - and so it at least does make sense that you'd need to get out of the EU if you want that kind of thing.
 (I helped save b3ta! monkeon schmonkeon, Thu 16 Jun 2016, 10:29, , Reply)
This is a normal post I think you misunderstood my use of "executive"
here I meant a functioning "upper house" or some-such. But I'm with you otherwise :)
 (theswollenbeef where there's a will there's a wank, Wed 15 Jun 2016, 22:53, , Reply)
This is a normal post
There are lots of areas where covering as wide an area as possible is important - thinking particularly environmental rules and standards in production.

The majority of EU directives seem to be about that sort of thing.

They are incredibly boring, which presumably is why the remain campaign aren't talking about toy safety and the leave campaign aren't talking about the cookie law.
 (I helped save b3ta! monkeon schmonkeon, Wed 15 Jun 2016, 18:12, , Reply)