I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong
I'm just pondering on whether it might be good or not to try a more scientific approach to sports based on ability which might solve the issue in the original post, especially when so many sports seem biased on physical attributes. I don't think I need to spend any time investigating the complex nuances and writing up details, even on the back of an envelope. Because this is b3ta, it's just chit chat.
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HappyToast Groat froth, Tue 29 Jun 2021, 12:46,
Reply)
When we base on “ability”
without controlling for the differing physiology of the sexes, “highest achievers” = “male athletes”
Most competitive sports were already designed to recognise attributes society valued in male people.
You’re simultaneously arguing for a more scientific approach while also saying that as it’s chit chat, being asked to scrutinise the implications of your arguments just isn’t cricket.
Here’s an example
Base football on “ability” not sex, and there are zero young girls who watch England vs Germany this evening who will be able to do so while thinking “if I train hard, I can represent my country at international level at football”, because no female footballers will be as good even as the top 1% of male footballers, let alone the even tinier number who represent their countries.
Same applies for sprinting, boxing, weightlifting, tennis, swimming and countless other elite sports.
Simply put, the answer to “why separate sports by sex” is “because if we don’t, there’s no female elite sport”
It seems you don’t really have a counterpoint to this - even your own example of boxing was immediately shown to be wrong, and while you said that’s not what you meant, it’s not clear what you did mean.
(, Tue 29 Jun 2021, 13:04, Reply)
I'm not arguing anything, I'm wondering if there's a better, more inclusive and still fair way of doing it
I'm sure it's been tried, tested and rejected by many minds greater and more focused than mine, but there's also a huge chance that we're stuck in the current system because it profits some people and why bother rocking the boat.
So apologies for half arsed considering it, but that's all I was doing.
Also, you have mixed competition in snooker, equestrian and stuff, so who knows, maybe they'll find a way in other elite sports.
I'm off now, peace and love as Ringo would say.
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HappyToast Groat froth, Tue 29 Jun 2021, 13:41,
Reply)
Those last sports you mention
are not based on strength, build or stamina where males have an obvious advantage, so I'm not sure your point holds up there
(, Tue 29 Jun 2021, 13:50, Reply)
^this
there is a lot of fuzzy logic being thrown around by some in this thread
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Mex3 =mememe, Tue 29 Jun 2021, 14:51,
Reply)
Snooker and equestrian sports
Are an example of sports where segregation of sex would be sexism rather than recognition of sex differences.
The fact that we have some sports that aren’t segregated by sex suggests that the question of fairness has been addressed, and resulted in a situation where sports are, funnily enough, segregated by sex where it’s legitimate and fair to do so, and not where it isn’t.
If you’re able to give just *one* example of an elite female athlete whose prowess and recognition is limited by not being allowed to show that she’d outperform elite males in direct competition, I’ll concede that something needs looking at.
As it stands, all you’re saying is “because trans people, maybe “male and female” are outdated terms”
That is frankly nonsense, and it’s dangerous nonsense because if a reasonable, unbiased person read this thread, they’d see that your instinctive desire to support trans rights has resulted in egregious casual sexism
(, Tue 29 Jun 2021, 13:58, Reply)
we have womens sports for the same reason we have the paralympics
most of the time this goes unexamined and unspoken, but occasionally some prick like bobby riggs or McEnroe decides to make a point about it. It's a little ironic that in their desire for inclusion as women in sport, male to female trans athletes are once again bringing back into focus this inconvenient truth, and I think will get confronted by disgruntled female athletes that gender identity choice and gender are not the same thing if the big kiwi trans weightlifter wins gold in tokyo. there's already ructions. I'm not that fussed myself, it's only women's sport, but I can't see how you can please all parties. It's one of those life of brian foetus gestating in a bucket things
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Tue 29 Jun 2021, 15:58,
Reply)