Eh? I’m perfectly willing to accept definitions of words
What then *is* the definition of “woman” that I’m missing? Nobody has provided one. “It’s a gender” isn’t a definition, it’s an evasion of one.
(, Mon 16 Aug 2021, 19:16, Reply)
So it's not a red herring any more?
Why is “It’s a gender” an evasion of an answer? What do you mean by that?
(
brb Monkhouse Stampede, Mon 16 Aug 2021, 19:35,
Reply)
Because as yet
Nobody has been able to say what the “gender” of “woman” comprises, and in which way it is a discrete category; by the logic used, “man” is also a gender, rather than the noun for an adult human male. So what is the difference between the genders of “man” and “woman” - what constitutes a “man” gender, what constitutes a “woman” gender?
Without actually being able to say what differentiates the genders, the concept of “woman as gender identity” males no sense: if woman is a gender identity, what *is* it? Trans activism can’t say - all it actually means is that it’s a word that male people can claim if they want it. In which way do these genders map onto sex in a way that makes a compelling case for a gender identity to overwrite and determine sex categories, as in the case of Hubbard.
Trans activism has no answer to this question, because answering it would mean conceding that it is referring to femininity and masculinity.
What *is* this innate sense of gender identity that is/was shared by Mo Mowlam, Katie Price, Megan Rapinoe, Hedy Lamarr, Caitlyn Jenner, Queen Elizabeth, Margaret Thatcher, Mariah Carey and Tilda Swinton? What do they all have in common? If they *dont* have anything in common, what is the usefulness of this idea that they have a shared gender identity? Are you able to give, say, five examples of things that characterise people with the gender identity “woman” and five things that categorise the gender identity “man”, without using sexist stereotypes? I can guarantee that you can’t, and without it, the idea that “woman” is a gender word but doesn’t have any intrinsic meaning is *literally* male people appropriating a useful term - the word for female humans - and stripping it of meaning for the benefit of male people.
My point is that they don’t have a shared gender identity - most of the people listed above have in common that they are *female*, and so use “woman” in the common understanding as the word to describe adult female humans, while one of them uses the word to describe that they believe they have a woman’s inner sense of self. That person however, has no ay whatsoever of knowing what it is to experience life as a female person, so “gender identity” remains a nebulous belief system.
Feel free to take it out of the realms of the nebulous and into something substantial by explaining what constitutes a “woman” gender identity….
(, Tue 17 Aug 2021, 12:09, Reply)
I see your problem (without reading all that bollocks, seriously tl;dr)
You say "“man” is also a gender, rather than the noun for an adult human male."
But it's both! A lot of words that describe sex also describe gender, and vice versa.
(
brb Monkhouse Stampede, Tue 17 Aug 2021, 14:05,
Reply)
Then what is it describing when used to refer to “gender”?
You’re now saying man means “sex” AND “gender”, while saying that I am the one conflating the terms, and yet you can’t actually say what differentiates the gender “man” from the gender “woman”
Yes, my post is long. Because unpacking trans activism’s obfuscation requires patience and scrutiny of implications. So let’s hear it - what does the “gender” of “man” entail? What good reason is there to use a word that is associated with sex to describe one’s experience of self? What purpose is served by using this - apparently differing - concept, as a qualifying status into spaces and services that were clearly designed for members of a sex, rather than an internal sense of self that -apparently - isn’t about sex?
(, Wed 18 Aug 2021, 10:00, Reply)