We're years away from having the tech required to deploy reliable, accurate AI policing.
But hypothetically speaking, it would be interesting to see what the rate of incidence of lethal force against whites vs POC is when executed by an entirely non-prejudicial automated law enforcement bot. 1:1?
(, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 10:22, Reply)
What if it encountered more black armed criminals than white ones in a particular area?
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Turtle Power & Knuckles, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 11:31,
Reply)
Or do you mean "appropriate response in equivalent situations with race being the only significant difference"
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Turtle Power & Knuckles, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 11:33,
Reply)
I think by “interesting” he means he expects it would confirm his view that blacks are all criminals
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 13:53,
Reply)
Thanks, but where’s the pickled onion I ordered?
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 21:07,
Reply)
Not at all.
I'd be genuinely curious to see how many incidences of lethal force are appropriate and justified from a perspective not influenced by racial bias or prejudice. There has been more than enough evidence of POC individuals being shot/injured when the use of such force was clearly not appropriate/lawful to put to bed any claims that prejudicial use of force does not occur. But likewise, it's also safe to say that when just about any young black/white/asian/hispanic/whatever individual is shot by the Police, the community will immediately jump to the defence of the individual and assert that the use of lethal force was grossly inappropriate. Without documented video evidence of each and every incident, we're basically relying on the word of the Law Enforcement Officer (which is likely to be massively unreliable) and the word of the family and friends of the victim (which is likely to be massively unreliable).
Like I said, It's all hypothetical, but I'd be interesting to see just how many of these killings could be attributed to racial prejudice versus those where race simply wasn't a deciding factor in pulling the trigger.
(, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 14:47, Reply)
So rather than accept the mountains of research that show unequivocal systemic racial bias throughout the whole criminal justice system
From stop and search right through to sentencing. Instead you’d need to see some sort of neutrally programmed robocop to test whether the entire black community have been inventing their grievances these many years?
Sorry I misjudged you
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 21:05,
Reply)
I can tell by your deliberate obtusity that this subject is triggering to you.
Probably best just to leave it at that, eh?
(, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 21:44, Reply)
not at all, I'm rarely invested in any particular topic, and certainly not this one, not being black or living in a country with a large black community
And I'm not bothered if you are racist or not. I do have a curiosity about bad argument, where it comes from and what people believe and why, mainly because there's so much of it about, and it's fun trying to nail jelly to the wall.
In this case, what you probably think seems to be a reasonable proposition actually has a lot of bias implicit in it, by claiming there is an open and equal proposition that needs to be decided
e.g "Did NASA fake the moon landings? It would be interesting to review the original footage. NASA claim it was real but they are obviously biased, while other claim it's faked"
No it's not particularly interesting unless you're a conspiracy theorist, as the claims of both sides don't have equal weight and evidence.
Now it could be that you're ignorant of all the studies reviews and numerous high profile abuses that all point to the same conclusion of systemic racism. But given your MO, I reckon it's because you don't believe the "massively unreliable" black communities exhaustive claims, and think that somehow a hypothetical robot would vindicate you. That's why you find it interesting.
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 23:43,
Reply)
You see, you just expounded marvellously what I was pointing out in my own simple way. Bigots have a way of minimising the experience of minorities, and very often seek to find a 'reasonable hypothesis' to hide behind.
(, Thu 8 Dec 2022, 9:27, Reply)
Somewhat anecdotal, but I've never met a black criminal in my life.
I've met fucking loads of white ones, though. I also live in the North of Scotland, which might skew the results somewhat.
Clifford Smith Jr. emailed me once, but I think it's a bit unfair to brand him a 'criminal'. Plus, he's not from round these parts, so I don't think it would count anyway.
(, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 14:55, Reply)
people generalise about groups, because it can be efficient and can be useful
and experiences are valid, often all we have to go on in life. All gypsies aren't thieves and swindlers, but if you've been ripped off or had shit stolen by them several times, as your social group has had similar experiences, then you're going to treat them with more wariness than you would some other stranger.
It was an issue when I was with the coppers. Racial profiling is a more efficient use of police resources, but the side effect is that a lot of innocent black people get harassed while the white community doesn't, so it depends what you value more. To me "the presumption of innocence" outweighs police resourcing issues. It's a real issue in the UK www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/15/black-boy-in-stop-and-search-30-times-accuses-met-police-of-racist-profiling even if it's not official policy.
And the issue is that it's not some neutral policy just for efficiency. It shapes how police treat people, alienates already marginalised groups, and people aren't good about separating risk from prejudice and you find they also exaggerate both risks and other negative traits and false assumptions about a race instead of simply neutral risk assessment. In other words, racism
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Thu 8 Dec 2022, 2:10,
Reply)
I'm certain that there would be situations where that was the case.
Likewise, I'm sure there would also be geographical locations where the incidence of armed non-POC perpetrators was higher.
I'm talking about a nationwide figure here. Over the period of 12 months, taking into account all situations where the AI deemed lethal force appropriate.
(, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 11:41, Reply)
what is it with /links posters looking for ways to rationalise their bigotry?
(, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 11:48, Reply)
Care to elaborate?
Or are you just being a chippy little twat again?
(, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 11:50, Reply)
haha, you guys are beyond parody, 'chippy little twat' seems to mean anyone calling you out on obvious things
(, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 12:00, Reply)
They should stick a few ED-209s outside The Capitol Building,
well in advance of Make Stop The Steal Great Again
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Turtle Power & Knuckles, Wed 7 Dec 2022, 12:14,
Reply)
