^
This.
I think that anyone is allowed to follow whatever belief system they want as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's rights. (or is Scientology, sorry but there is an exception to every rule)
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Crap Little Monkey Deathstar, so good they built it twice, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 13:49,
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Pfft!
I myself am a catholic, but I would never try and force my beliefs on other people. If they asked me about it, I would be happy to talk to them about what I believe in and why. The problem is with these atheists, is that they don't seem to realise that they are as fundamental about their beliefs, as certain religious people are, thus contradicting their whole point.
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Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 13:50,
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That's why I'm a fundamentalist agnostic.
I don't have the answers, and neither does anyone else, because it is impossible to know.
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Fishcat Difficult difficult lemon difficult., Thu 5 Feb 2009, 13:55,
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I have a friend with the same views
and I think it's a bit lame. Do you believe there is a god or don't you? Obviously we can't prove there isn't (cf Russell's teapot), although God could really save us all a lot of bother by manifesting in Trafalgar square and clearing the whole thing up. But do you really not have an opinion one way or the other?
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flatfrog Staring vacantly into space, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 13:58,
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If there is a "God", i.e. some all powerful being that watches over us/ created us
he is nothing at all like the "God" that all the religions describe.
When good things happen, people thank God - he made it right. When things go badly, God is either ignored or it's "all part of his plan". I like what David Attenborough said about the worm whose sole purpose is to burrow through eyeballs.
I think it's very obvious that most religions arise from the fact that our ancestors couldn't comprehend a lot of what happened, so they filled in the gaps with God.
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The Coast Of Yemen, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 14:09,
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It's being open minded to the possibilities
i mean i dont seriously believe in santa claus or faries but that alone doesn't mean they can't exist.
Suspending Judgement is the only way to go when this are not knowable and since philosophy teaches us that Knowledge can never be achieved we have to at suspend judgement on everything...at least a little
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Sonic 2 and Knuckles, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 14:16,
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I don't believe in a god, as in a beardy consciousness in the sky,
But I'm open to many ideas that are beyond our comprehension. Perhaps the universe is just an eternal and cyclical system with no plan? Perhaps it had a begining and will have an end? Perhaps god is chaos? Perhaps the universe is ordered into an intelligence of its own? Perhaps our universe is simply a computer simulation by some consciousness beyond our abilities to percieve?
I don't believe in God or Allah or Jehova, as these are just humanised labels that have been given to things we can't possibly hope to understand. BUT, unlike many of my atheist friends, I am willing to live with cognitive dissonance over this- pretending that you can know 'the truth' is arrogant. It's possible to reject human-based religious traditions without rejecting spirituality. It's also possible to reject the ego-centric/human-centric view of 'God' without claiming that nothing exists beyond our own comprehension (an equally ego/human-centric position).
So I suppose my thoughts about 'god' are confused by the labelling- god is the only word we have for what is beyond our understanding. The core of my belief is that the human mind is a wonderful, but ultimately limited and flawed instrument for attempting to understand the universe. Thus, pretending to know any absolutes is ridiculous.
Having said that, we must learn to explore the nature of the universe within the constraints of our minds. I believe science is the best tool we (currently) have for this, and so I lean much more towards the conventional 'scientific' understanding than I do to a religious one.
So: I suppose I reject the conventional idea of God, but am unwilling to reject the possibility of something beyond ourselves (or 'god'!).
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Fishcat Difficult difficult lemon difficult., Thu 5 Feb 2009, 14:17,
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it's hard to pigeon hole god
even every Christian has a different idea of what God is
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Sonic 2 and Knuckles, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 14:24,
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Bollocks
Sorry, I know we've had this discussion before, but still, I can't let that pass. How is 'There is probably no god, so stop worrying and enjoy your life' even comparable to the statements of fundamentalist religious nutters? When did Richard Dawkins advocate killing people who disagreed with him or blasphemed against the sacred word of Darwin? Get some perspective.
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flatfrog Staring vacantly into space, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 13:55,
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You misunderstand me.
I am not saying that it does, however, I have never read a religious text that does sanction or advocate murder. That is down to the interpretation of certain people for their own ends. The point I was trying to make was that a fundamental discounting of anyones beliefs, either way, serves no purpose.
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Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 14:01,
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Jehovah!
skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/stoning.html
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The Coast Of Yemen, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 14:04,
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If it's all based on interpretation and peoples own agendas
then how can the word be relied upon?
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Sonic 2 and Knuckles, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 14:20,
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I'm not saying it can be relied upon.
But that is the nature of humanity, no matter who put it here....
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Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 14:36,
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not true
clearly the bible has too many metaphors and hyperbole than any factual story
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Sonic 2 and Knuckles, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 14:46,
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I just think there's a big disparity between the views
Atheists generally believe there is no god because there is no evidence to suggest that there is one. It's easy to suggest examples of hypothetical evidence which, should it appear, would change their mind (cf my post above, but also Haldane's 'Fossil rabbits in the Precambrian').
Religious people believe despite the lack of evidence, and there is no evidence that you can suggest that would make them change their view (indeed, the whole 'virtue' of faith is that it is maintained despite the lack of evidence)
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flatfrog Staring vacantly into space, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 14:37,
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Well of course there is.
However, the point of faith is just that.
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Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Thu 5 Feb 2009, 14:44,
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