What a pretentious load of shite.
And not even mildly unexpected.
I have had the dubious pleasure of converting worldwide video submissions for an arts festival before now (taking all the various formats and framerates used globally and making them playable in Britain...) and it was full of this kind of shit.
People that make this sort of thing think they're being so "out there" and they're really not. It' only people like me, that have to sit through literally hundreds of these videos converting each one that sees just how fucking similar they are.
Step 1 - Take someone unassuming looking. A pretty girl for example.
Step 2 - Take an unassuming every day item. Food for example.
Step 3 - Combine step 1 and step 2 in an unusual way (for unusual, read: disgusting).
Step 4 - Add some unsuitable music.
Step 5 - Submit to arts festival of your choosing.
Step 6 - Feel like you've created something "out there".
Just google "interior semiotics".
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PMGT -Bacon., Fri 6 May 2011, 19:48,
Reply)
Having googled 'interior semiotics' and watched the video
that bloke at 2:27, does he have any weak lemon drink?
(, Fri 6 May 2011, 20:20, Reply)
I think your response may be at least kind of what they are looking for
To be honest, the video is wierd, subversive, but most of all striking very much left of centre. I wouldn't say it's totally original, but it isn't exactly treading familiar territory.
Personally I find it entertaining, and don't you think it's good to see something take you out of your own comfort zone?
I've had a look at some of your own videos, and it goes without saying you're a particulary talented visual designer, but I wouldn't imagine you'd come up with something like this. Not that I'm saying this is high art or anything, I just hate it when people go "that's a load of old pretencious nonsense, anyone could make that". The fact is you didn't, and they did. If it isn't your cup of tea, so be it, but that doesn't mean it's bollocks, it's just not in your particular wavelength.
If we shot down everyone who 'made something wierd' using your formula, we'd never have any David Cronenberg, Steven Spielberg, Michel Gondry, Christopher Nolan, Werner Herzog, Shane Meadows, David Lynch, etc etc. Enjoy people letting their wierd out, it could lead to something great.
(, Sat 7 May 2011, 1:55, Reply)
A fair and well reasoned point,
however, I must (obviously) disagree.
I think it is a question of intent. Whoever made this video had the intention of creating something shocking and unsettling. If you find it shocking and unsettling, I would wager that you have not seen many videos like this before.
All of the work I do for anyone is within the independent film scene in Manchester, and whilst I hope to God you don't think I'm saying that in a kind of "I do this, so my argument is more valid" kind of way, I would say that if you're in a position to see more than two of these kind of videos back to back, as I have been on numerous occasions, then they immediately lose that shock factor as you start to see that they're all the same, and not creative, and not original, and after you see it once, not even shocking. You can just substitute food for dirt for example, or worms, or dog shit or anything you want thats likely to elicit that "WTF?" reation in your viewers.
You said, and I thank you for it, that I wouldn't and didn't come up with something like this. Absolutely right. Just because I can, doesn't mean I should. And I assure you that if I wanted to make something like this, I could. I don't just do visual effects, I'm also a director and writer, and I'd like to think that if I wanted to make something you find unsettling, I could do a much better job than just doing something people find a bit disgusting. But if I wanted to make a video that elicited this kind of response in people I easily could, because I can see the common ideas that run through all of these kinds of videos. Namely what I described in the original reply. (Check out "Milk Teeth" by Japanese Voyeurs as well. They do a similar thing but as a music video, which at least gives the video a point...)
And to be honest, I think it might be a little bit rich comparing this with the likes of David Cronenberg, David Lynch and Werner Herzog. They are expert storytellers. This is a video of a girl rubbing butter in her hair. They challenge you by tackling subject matter few others would dare to, and crafting believable stories out of the absurd. "The Fly" is still one of the most perfect horror films ever made, not because it's scary, but because it tackles unsettling ideas like the dangers of experimental science and the fear of the unknown. This is a video of a girl rubbing butter in her hair.
There really is no further shock value than "Oh, I wouldn't do that with food."
And it's actually quite ironic that you described it as being "not in my particular wavelength", as "Wavelength" by Michael Snow was one of the first Avant-Garde films I ever watched (as part of an extensive module on Avant-Garde film at university). If you want to talk about comfort zones, go and watch that (all of it). Better yet, watch it on a cinema screen with the volume set right. It is far better, and far more uncomfortable, than this.
I love film, in almost all of it's forms (except fucking romantic comedies...). I love films that entertain, films that inform and films that challenge you. I love weird films, and I love (good) experimental films. This is not one of those films. It's formulaic and boring as hell.
If you want to watch a genuinely unsettling film, or even just some good Avante-Garde films, may I recommend some of the following:
Restrepo
Men Behind The Sun (I suggest you do some background reading on this one first. Start with "Unit 731")
Dog Star Man
The General Line
Un Chien Andalou
Atomic Cafe
The Thin Blue Line (not really avante-garde, but a worrying documentary nonetheless)
Battleship Potemkin
The Discreet Charm of the Petit-Bourgeoisie
This is just a video of a girl rubbing butter in her hair.
(
PMGT -Bacon., Sat 7 May 2011, 11:05,
Reply)
And because I'm not the sort of person
that would make claims about being able to make films without evidence to back it up, here are my vimeo pages with some of the videos and projects I've worked on over the last few years:
vimeo.com/user694404 (Stuff I have done with my colleague Andy...)
vimeo.com/user1708944 (mostly work in process stuff).
(
PMGT -Bacon., Sat 7 May 2011, 11:15,
Reply)
Good argument
And thanks on the list, I've got a bunch of them but I'll definatly research Men Behind The Sun, Dog Star Man and The General Line (incidentally seeing as you brought up Restrepo, catch Armadillo if you haven't already).
You obviously know your way around film, I fully respect your opinion. Without treading too far into the beard-scratching-who-knows-more-about-avart-garde-cinema territory, there's no way I would place this in the category of true intellectual cinema. I understand your point of distancing this video from people I mentioned, but even folk like Lynch made 'Dumbland', something I'm still having trouble fathoming if he was just taking the piss or not.
Regardless, I respect him for releasing it, as he made something he was proud enough to stamp his own name upon and release into the wide world, with no real concern for it's critial reception.
Films like Zulawski's 'Possession' or 'Diabel', Denis's 'Trouble Every Day' and 'The Intruder', even going way back to early Bertolucci with 'Before The Revolution' (as well as many that you have mentioned) they all share a common theme of stepping into the realm of the unknown. It typically takes a few return journeys to work out what the hell is actually going on. Again, I wouldn't dare try and lump this video in with anything even closely resembling the films both of us have referenced. I think we are on the same wavelength of believing the people behind this video made it with the pure intent of doing something wierd for wierd's sake.
But I'm sure back when they were experimenting with their cameras, Lynch, Cronenberg, Bunuel, Zulawski, and everyone else we've talked about probably has a stash kicking about in someone's basement with old footage of how this goes with that or how that looks with that on it and what would it be like if we do this and so on (I know Kubrick did, he avoided the embarassment and burnt as much of his archive as he possibly could, bar the boxes [incidentally, I'm sure you would have seen it, but if not, track down the documentary 'Stanley Kubrick's Boxes' by Jon Ronson. An invigorating watch]).
That's how I view this piece of work. it definatly is wierd for the sake of wierd. But can you honestly tell me that everything that every brilliant artist we've seen in the film industry has created nothing but stunning, expressionistic, evocative, life-affirming pieces of work, or have there been a few duds early on that worked as a stepping stone for something bolder, better and worth waiting for?
And on the account of wierd for wierd's sake, I have to admit there's a wealth of material that comes to mind that, personally, stand up on their own two feet as pieces of entertainment. Examples like selected pieces from Takashi Miike, Ôbayashi 'Hausu' (absolutly worth a watch with some friends late one night, a total riot), and 'Andy Warhol's Bad' (which he only produced) all show an absolute reluctance to conform to any requirement to explain or quantify the wierdness (and there's a TON) throughout their pictures. An excellent recent example of this would be Quentin Dupieux's 'Rubber', which opens with a monologue aimed directly at the audience dissecting the validity of 'no reason' in cinema. Sure, it's tongue in cheek, but it's absolutly the director's true and unabashed sentiment; sometimes, if it pays off, it's fucking great cinema. Nothing more, nothing less.
I apologise if my first post came off a tad stand-offish. There have been a few occasions on this board when something I generally consider to be at the very least an interesting watch that gets blown out of the water by someone who doesn't have a clue what they are talking about, but are adament they are correct nonetheless. That's my own ignorance, I must stop that.
(, Sat 7 May 2011, 20:42, Reply)
What a lovely civilised conversation this turned out to be.
I wish all of the internet was like this. I shall endeavour to watch suggested films, and thank you for your participation :D
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PMGT -Bacon., Mon 9 May 2011, 21:37,
Reply)
My thoughts exactly
I'll definatly track down the ones you brought up. If people were more like us the internet would be a better place.
(, Tue 10 May 2011, 20:14, Reply)