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This is a normal post "Someone stopped a crime with a gun" is a kind of apologetic strategy,
but the theory is that if everyone has power a sort of stable equilibrium is reached by individuals protecting themselves and each other. It doesn't necessarily matter that the equilibrium has more shootings than the state-controlled society, because the principle of freedom also has intrinsic value, which is difficult to quantify.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 16:22, Reply)
This is a normal post And if you have a theory
then you need data, right? Otherwise it is guesswork.

My example was over-simplified, but there is lots of crime data that could be analysed and debated rather than just people appealing to emotion.
 (I helped save b3ta! monkeon schmonkeon, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 16:29, Reply)
This is a normal post ultimately all data has to be evaluated according to a value system.
it's not the data that justifies the values. it's the values that give relevance to the data.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 16:31, Reply)
This is a normal post So you think data isn't as valid
as appealing to someone's emotions and not even trying to get statistics to back up your case?
 (I helped save b3ta! monkeon schmonkeon, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 16:39, Reply)
This is a normal post when it comes to ideology it's emotions all the way.
only two people with some ideological common ground can have a meaningful discussion of statistics. If one person values freedom more than life, how can you sway them by saying that their policies would result in loss of life?
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 16:43, Reply)
This is a normal post As soon as people don't use logic to reason
then it all becomes a matter of "faith" which is impossible and pointless to argue with as there is no language to do so.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

edit: obviously you can argue logically without data, though it helps to have some data. However, you can't argue logically if it is "emotions all the way".
 (I helped save b3ta! monkeon schmonkeon, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 16:48, Reply)
This is a normal post yep,
that's about right.

Our values don't come from reasoning, they come from the society we wish to fit into.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 16:51, Reply)
This is a normal post There is data here to support and refute
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Guns,_Less_Crime
 (I helped save b3ta! BrokenCoccyx doesn't mind if you grope on, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 17:26, Reply)
This is a normal post That guy's as scientific
as Archie Bunker
 (DeSade - is grannyfappin, Fri 20 Jul 2012, 17:33, Reply)