i think if you did a poll of men asking how many obtained verbal consent before fucking it would be very low, probably in single digits
Galloway has a point, whatever you think about the fucker or his politics. In reality, sex is often initiated and agreed to without any verbal discusion. It starts with kissing, then fondling, then stripping off.
As much as anti-sexual violence campaigners would wish it otherwise, generally asking "May I fuck you?" or "Do you give your informed consent to have sexual relations with me?" is the exception rather than the norm of human sexual interaction.
To call intiating sex without verbal consent (allegedly) while in bed together after already having mutually consensual sex as rape does cheapen the term, as it equates people who don't ask for permission for each time they do it under the impression that it's consensual (ie, the majority of sexual encounters) with people who use physical violence or intimidation for sex.
This is just speaking in general terms. In the assange case there are a lot of other factors (one of the accusers tweeting a few hours after the rape about what a cool party she was at), the political nature of the prosecution (a known anti-rape campaigner with something to gain (in sweden the prosecutors are political appointments) who convinced the two women to change there accusation from wanting Assange to have an STI test to accusing him of rape), the leaking to the press of assange details on the prosecutors blog, the texts from the accusers saying they want to get paid (this is alleged, as the prosecution is refusing to release them), their refusal for him to be questioned of give pre-trial appearance by video link, and other factors point towards a bullshit prosecution without having to delve into consipiricy theories
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 21:50,
Reply)
You are right in the sense
that verbal 'ok, we can have sex now' very rarely happens. However, is that a defense? 'She didn't say no'. Oh that's OK then.
Even if I had sex with someone and took then back to my house and went to bed, I would still defend my right to say they had non-consensual sex with me while I was asleep.
You cannot, CANNOT take anything for granted when it comes to how you feel about fucking or being fucked.
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:17,
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in sweden you can't, it seems, and that a shame in my opinion
in England they've sensibly included the "reasonable belief" element into the law. Im not saying the rape law is perfect, and there are huge problems with how rape accusers are treated in the the UK, but this shouldn't be a stick to beat people who question assanges conviction over the head with or say that all rape accusations are of equal merit whatever the circumstances
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:34,
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This
and any 'verbal consent' argument is bollocks, you both know if you want to shag, you don't need some kind of verbal confirmation to enforce this
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Jahled Three shades of black, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:35,
Reply)
This is one of the most contentious points of law there is at the moment.
I have to agree with you, Herbs, if you're asleep you cannot consent to an act you're not aware of being initiated. I don't just start having sex with my wife because I feel like it, I wake her up, get told to 'fuck off, it's three in the morning!' then go back to sleep.
But Galloway needs to shut up and die. Akin, too.
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NooShmoo It's a fantazmagorical pile of ultra bollocks, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:44,
Reply)
yes, but when you say "wake her up" i bet you don't turn the lights on and wait til she's fully awake and say "I would like to have sex, is it ok"
like me, you probably give her squeeze and see how she physically responds, judging by her body language if she awake enought and into it enough before you continue. You wouldn't rush straight to fucking, but you wouldn't do the lights thing either. In sweden, you're a rapist
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:58,
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I have said before that waking someone up by having sex with them is a bit rapey,
and been accused of being boring.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:37,
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Really?!
Jesus H Monte Christo! Boring for suggesting that? well, take sloace in the fact that at least one person agrees with you....
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NooShmoo It's a fantazmagorical pile of ultra bollocks, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:48,
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like all things, it depends on the circumstances. it's not a crime to want to go again.
have they had had sex before, or is it the first time. Had they had sex that night before? Did it happen half an hour later, or at 4 in the morning when she was dreaming of ponies?
did she wake half-way through to find he was on top of her boning away, or did she respond well to his fondling in a half-asleep sort of way that encouraged him to think it was cool, or did he wake her up and she was fully into it, but she forgot to ask him to put a condom on because she was a bit sleepy and blamed him afterwards?
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:49,
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I think this was a regular partner type scenario,
apparently some people are cool with that, personally I'd be absolutely livid.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 22:52,
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fair enough, but is is behaviour so far outside the norms that it should be considered rape
I guess what im trying to say in my usual wordy sort of way is that sexual interaction is complicated and often a little bit animalistic under normal human circumstances, and Im a bit nervous about locking someone up for 5 years if they honestly misinterpret the signals in a non violent sort of way
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cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 23:06,
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Then if he doesn't want to be locked up
he should give his side of the story where it's appropriate.
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 23:09,
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When I dream of ponies
I always feel sexy.
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Herb Alpert's Taxi Driver I have very beautiful lips, Mon 20 Aug 2012, 23:02,
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I'll see you in court.
I am a pony, and fiddling with my fetlock without my consent even while you're asleep is tantamount to rape.
(, Tue 21 Aug 2012, 2:45, Reply)