I'm not sure this is a conspiracy theory or just a call to constant vigilance.
Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you.

Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture.

Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces.

Jean Paul Marat - (1743 - 1793)
( rjmrjm, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 9:50, 41 replies)

I don't pretend to give a toss about others.
As long as I've got mine, I don't care about other people. I'm not one for disguising it by claiming to be a Union Leader speaking on behalf of the working masses, or donating to charity to quench any nagging feeling of guilt I might have, though. Fuck everyone else - that's how life works - get yours, and get out - fight anyone who tries to take it from you.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 9:57, closed)

this is a recipe for staying powerless - power is in the group
you know the posh have solidarity? Old school tie and all that.

Unions are stamped on hard by those in power because they know exactly how effective group action can be.
( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 10:16, closed)

I take my chances - I've never been very good at being part of a herd.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 10:20, closed)

you better go and post on your own blog then
as you've already joined a herd by posting here :)

B3ta is a collective group action kind of thing. I don't mean I'm running a union, but I do mean its power comes from people joining in.
( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 10:24, closed)

Yes but B3ta doesn't really do anything, does it? It's a bit of a laugh.
If it does, that's nice, but I joined to have a bit of a laugh, not to save Wales.

And if you're interested, yes I do write my own blog:

misinformed-misanthropic-misbehaved.blogspot.com/
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 10:26, closed)

Fuck The Welsh.

( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 10:29, closed)

b3ta supplies an audience
you can start your own website and it's a job to find an audience.

You can post on b3ta and you've got an audience.

I'm not arguing this is a politic thing - I'm simply arguing its an example of how acting collectively gives the individual power than can be harder to obtain by acting on their own.
( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 10:30, closed)

The world is an audience.
That's what Hyde Park Corner's for, and advertising aimed at. Inequality drives competition.

Iceland now offers a three-bird roast, incidentally (not in the rude way). That stuff used to specifically be the domain of kings.

I'm not sure that the prolitariate should be allowed a three-bird roast, and if they are, I'm not sure I'd want one from Iceland.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 10:37, closed)

advertising is aimed at an audience
but without serious cash you can't pay for a billboard. Yet acting collectively, say a 1000 people could agree on a common aim and the price of a billboard would be trivial.

I really am quite serious about this point. Acting collectively IS power. Believing otherwise keeps people from grasping that power.
( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 11:23, closed)

I can't imagine 1,000 people agreeing on what to put on the billboard.
I'm all for keeping power from people - most people are far too stupid - not to mention ugly - to be given any power beyond choosing their wallpaper.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 11:27, closed)

it's trivial to imagine 1,000 people agreeing - try this
We run a compo on B3ta. B3ta Billboard. "We're going to rent a billboard in central London and YOU get to choose what's upon it. We've worked out it'll cost £10,000, so we need £10 off about 1000 of you. Paypal linky here. OOOH, and what to go on it? Stick your photoshops here. Highest voted on is the billboard. COME ON YOU ART TERRORISTS LET'S FUCK WITH THE WORLD! Will it be a CDC? Will it be David Cameron as a blood drinking lizard? ONLY YOU CAN MAKE THIS HAPPEN."

I know this would work - although there's probably all sorts of details that would change if we executed the plan - due to various practicalities that would present themselves. Such as the billboard company refusing to stick up a big cock etc. But the core concept would work.
( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 11:39, closed)

I agree, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't run with the design that I wanted.
"Everything should be decided by committee, and the ideal committee consists of three people, two of whom are absent."

I know socialism sounds lovely, and it is lovely on a minor, trivial, and inconsequential level, but the larger it gets the more and more you get people exploiting others for their own gain, and back to where we are now. At the end of the day everyone wants to get theirs and everyone else can fuck right off.

It's the circle of life - someone should write a song about it.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 11:47, closed)

no of course not
you can't get exactly what you want through collective action. But you can get some of it. Acting on your own and you have even less.

Collective action can mean families too. A couple has more power than an individual. One partner can lose their job and they can survive on the others wage whilst they find a new job. Someone on their own might find themselves homeless that bit sooner.

edit: You've added a bit about socialism. I'll reply to that too. I'm not talking about socialism. I'm talking about acting collectively = power. A corporation is acting collectively in the interests of the shareholders for example. And they are possibly the most powerful things in the world.

Yes people can be fucked over. Yes a union can be corrupted. Yes a corporation can be captured by a board that fucks over the shareholders. This doesn't mean the individuals best chance at survival is acting as an individual.
( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 12:02, closed)

Please
don't speak on my behalf and contradict yourself, I don't think like this;
"At the end of the day everyone wants to get theirs and everyone else can fuck right off."

I'm a union rep and a fund-raiser, both of which I do out of thanks for those that have helped me and my family in the past, not out of any guilt, so stop assuming people's individual motives by sweeping generalisations.
( Araucaria is such a tit, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 12:06, closed)

Give us all your wages, then.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 12:09, closed)

Why?

( Araucaria is such a tit, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 12:11, closed)

Because I want them. You're all about other people, not about yourself, I thought?

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 12:12, closed)

Really?
Where did I state I'm all about other people? I think you just took a couple of steps forward in your own internal dialogue without engaging in any of my personal facts.
Go on, you're David Cameron really aren't you?
( Araucaria is such a tit, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 12:18, closed)

What was it?
" I don't think like this;
"At the end of the day everyone wants to get theirs and everyone else can fuck right off.""

But you're not prepared to give away your wages?

Why ever not? Is it because you want to keep your stuff, perhaps?

Don't be embarassed - everyone feels like that. "What's mine is mine - I got it fair and square, so fuck right off, you're not having it."
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 12:21, closed)

I give away my time
and as any frothing-at-the-mouth capitalist like you will realise, time is money.
( Araucaria is such a tit, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 12:26, closed)

You, erm ... you get something in return for your time, don't you?

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 12:28, closed)

Sounds like you have an idea of what I get in return.
Care to reveal what your latest assumption is?
( Araucaria is such a tit, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 12:30, closed)

In discussions like this, it's generally frowned upon to answer a question with a question.
But I'll vote that at the very least it gives you a sense of charitable purpose, without which you would feel guilty, so, in the end, it's all about you satisfying your desire to be seen as charitable.

A trade-off, if you will.

You get what you wanted out of it.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 12:54, closed)

Frowned upon?
Oh, I apologise, we're bound by convention and social expectation, not in a free-for-all. Now I know, thanks.

And anyway, my answer is almost irrelevant isn't it, as your question was posed in a manner that suggested you'd already made up your mind?
Silly person, I already said what the reasons for getting involved are, namely that I had what I wanted from the parties involved, I'm just paying them back with my time. So, yes, it's a trade-off, I got what I wanted out of it (advice and support) and they get my time (for discussing others' need for advice and support and raising cash to support them in doing so.) Guilt doesn't enter the equation.

Nice that you acknowledge that there are such human feelings as charity and guilt though, and that they can be alternative motivators to monetary gain. But hey, you don't give a shit eh?
( Araucaria is such a tit, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 13:44, closed)

Giving to charity is just a self-congratulatory, mastabatory mechanism.
Everyon'e every action is selfish, I'm just pointing that out.

Of course, it's more comfortable to label oneself as philanthropic, kind, and socially-minded, but personally I just think that's a little poncy.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 13:57, closed)

There are
better ways of masturbation, even involving mechanisms.

I think you're confusing guilt and benevolence. If you happened to be walking down the street (implausible I know but just imagine your chauffeur is on strike over being paid the minimum wage) and a child was injured in front of you. If you help out, are you doing it because you'd feel guilt if you didn't, or do you help because you don't want to see someone suffer and you have the means to provide the assistance. The third option is walk on and feel angry that someone else didn't prevent it? A potential fourth is to cut a deal with an ambulance-chasing lawyer for a share of the compensation settlement for referring the case. See what I did there? I suggested that people act for different reasons, so just because you can't understand anyone else's motive but your own shouldn't mean their's aren't genuine to them.

Point me to someone who labels themselves as philanthropic and I'll show you a ponce. However, being kind and socially minded is hardly to be criticised is it? It is after all what's stopping you from robbing grannies on the bus when they have a few quid in their purses that would look nice deposited in your bank account?
( Araucaria is such a tit, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 14:15, closed)

The only reason people obey the law (ie - don't rob grannies, etc)
is because they're afraid of the consequent retribution.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 14:36, closed)

Yes ...
... of course it is.
Is this the conspiracy theory you almost believe, as in the QOTW?

*Gets paranoid and feels isolated that I'm potentially the only one that doesn't want to rob grannies regardless of the consequences*
( Araucaria is such a tit, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:15, closed)

The invisibility cloak, the just and the unjust fella.
You'd as soon as do it if you thought you could.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:30, closed)

No I wouldn't.
Never mind the law, I'd most likely burn in hell or something. Now there's a conspiracy theory.

Must go ... got to fill in some tax forms.
I love giving, me.
( Araucaria is such a tit, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:42, closed)

'Course not. You're better than criminals. You're a better person.
They should have a special area reserved for the good people like you - you should get more priviges than criminals.

What's that? Oh!
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:48, closed)

Mind if I pose a question now?
Well that pretty much analyses my motives, how did you arrive at yours? Do you get born a selfish cunt or does it take a certain amount of determined development?
( Araucaria is such a tit, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 13:57, closed)

Everyone's born a selfish cunt.
Just look at humanity now, and throughout history.

It's all me, me, me.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 13:58, closed)

Of course
we're born selfish, that's just what a new-born is, as it hasn't learned anything.
We're also born to shit and piss ourselves but we somehow manage to move on from that eh?

Well, I suppose I could be falling foul of generalisation myself a bit there.
( Araucaria is such a tit, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 14:19, closed)

This is pure comedy gold!
Keep it up ;)
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:28, closed)

And the message will be
"Everyman for himself"

Thus has it always been. Thus will it always be.

And if you have got past the age of 18 without realising this then you really have no place to comment on society.

If you don't like it then go and live in a third world country for a year then come back and tell us how unfair Britain is.
(Bitter and Twisted, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 23:55, closed)

If that was actually the case
Then racism and sexism would still be incredibly popular, and charities wouldn't exist.
(StapMyVitals wouldn't mind a bit of that, Thu 8 Dec 2011, 0:32, closed)

Racism and sexism ARE still incredibly popular
And the only reason people give to charidy is to put themselves in a lower tax bracket and thus earn more.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Thu 8 Dec 2011, 10:27, closed)

I give to charity
and I don't even earn enough to pay tax, and you won't win many friends/influential positions with racist and sexist opinions these days.
(StapMyVitals wouldn't mind a bit of that, Thu 8 Dec 2011, 10:45, closed)

Congrats on discovering time travel,
Mr. Marat.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 12:46, closed)

Don't be stupid, he didn't travel in time...
...I just dug up his grave and 'nicked his ideas.
( rjmrjm, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 19:13, closed)