Not really.
I understand how the capitalist system works but, strip back enough layers, and you find there's nothing underneath.
Futures trading may be required for you to carry out your business, but that doesn't stop it being bullshit.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Wed 29 Feb 2012, 15:34, 1 reply)

Er, yeah it does.
It's what allows a farmer to sell his crop 6 months before he planted it, and get finance to do so.

It's what allows companies like ours to buy large stocks without the risk of losing our arses.

In some cases, it's what allows some Dickhead in a 2 grand Herbie Frog suit to piss your Grannies life savings away, in a drunken frenzy.

2 of those are good. One is bad. Do you know which one it is?
(username failed moderation, Wed 29 Feb 2012, 15:39, closed)

I'm not arguing that it isn't necessary for the system to work.
Selling something that you've yet to produce? I can accept that. Selling on that purchase? Bullshit.
Basing your business on the trading of futures? Compound bullshit.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Wed 29 Feb 2012, 15:49, closed)

What's the difference?
See, now we're getting complicated, and you'll lose track.

In your world, a Brazilian wheat farmer should be selling his crops directly to a Tanzanian grain miller, right? Cut out the bullshit middlemen.

I could list 100 things that neither of them are remotely capable of doing. It would never happen. That's why it goes through a trading company, becuase we can.

OK, and to cover the edit - if you don't get why we trade futures, well, you don't get it. It couldn't happen without it, has been so for several hundred years. The bullshit is speculation, what we do is exactly the opposite to that.
(username failed moderation, Wed 29 Feb 2012, 15:55, closed)

Again, not arguing that it isn't necessary for the system to function.
Doesn't mean I'm happy with the system.
Glad to hear your not speculating, though. I believe that's where the trouble really starts (back to Trading Places).

Can we do money, now? I've yet to be convinced that money is anything other than a collective delusion, but my economics lecturer was never keen to explain to me otherwise.

ps. Come the revolution...[etc.]
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Wed 29 Feb 2012, 16:09, closed)

Not really my thing.
We often borrow it, and we sometimes give it to people as advances for goods we buy that are still growing.

We sometimes do currency operations, I'm doing that this afternoon.

Otherwise, it's just something I don't get paid enough of. Same as everybody else.
(username failed moderation, Wed 29 Feb 2012, 16:12, closed)

Yeah, that hasn't helped.
Nevermind, I'm about to find myself with a negative quantity of delusion, anyway.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Wed 29 Feb 2012, 16:14, closed)

What happens when the farmer refuses to deliver the goods he's already sold?

( Lord Keeps meaning to procrastinate., Wed 29 Feb 2012, 17:38, closed)

Contract collapses I suppose
That and a massive legal challenge. If that fails the contract chain falls apart.
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Wed 29 Feb 2012, 17:45, closed)

Lawyer feed.
Yay.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Wed 29 Feb 2012, 17:53, closed)